Okay, so by now I'm sure that you're all aware that Tim Burton is directing a darker version of Alice in Wonderland. At first blush, I was ecstatic. I'm a big Tim Burton fan, and a HUGE fan of the Alice books by Lewis Carroll. (Well, a big Carroll fan overall, but that's neither here nor there.)

This seems like a good thing, yes? Has all the hallmarks of being (at the very least) a cult classic. But Burton falls victim to what I consider to be one of my major pet peeves: the bastardization of the source material for the sake of 'creativity.'

Looking at the cast for 'Alice', I see the regular cast from the original novel: Alice, the Hatter, the March Hare, the White Rabbit, the Chesire Cat, the Knave of Hearts -- sounds like the man's on to something, doesn't it? However, that's where the cast similarities stop. Burton has cannibalized parts of Through The Looking-Glass to better serve his movie. There is no Queen of Hearts; Burton instead has imported the Red and White Queens from the Looking-Glass world. The Tweedle twins also are listed as being part of the cast, and anyone who's read Looking-Glass know that you can find them on the Fifth Square of the chessboard. Not in the Wonderland forest.

Burton has so many characters to choose from in the initial book. Where are the Dodo and the Field Mouse? Where are the Duchess, her sneezy baby, and the Cook? The Mock-Turtle and Gryffon? These are great characters that, too often, are overlooked in the interest of pulling the exciting parts of the second novel in.

I understand making a good Alice film. But, other than the whimsical Disney fare, I have yet to see one done.

And, honestly, after reading the source material, does the Alice story need 'darkening up?' It's already a pretty dark story.

I dunno. I'm looking forward to this, but I don't hold out high hopes for it being a good translation of the story.

[/rant]

But didn't the Disney version pull from the different 'Alice' books?

I can say this unequivocally...since I portrayed the Mock Turtle in my high school rendition of Alice...no one knows those characters.

Yeah, Disney pulled the Jabberwock poem, the Garden of Talking Flowers, and the Tweedles. But I can forgive Walt that, because he was putting together a kid-friendly version of Alice, and he at least got the Caucus in there, which a lot of people overlook. But the stuff from Looking-Glass he included was the most kid-friendly portions of it. (Humpty Dumpty wasn't really kid-friendly, being a big jerk to Alice like he was.)

But to replace the Queen of Hearts with the Red and White Queens is just...arbitrary for the sake of being arbitrary. The Chess Queens have no place in Wonderland. There's no chessboard for Alice to cross and become Queen.

And, that's cool that you played the Mock Turtle! Do you remember all the lines to the Lobster Quadrille?

I like Tim Burton's movies so I'm sure this will be just fine.

superdoug wrote:
And, that's cool that you played the Mock Turtle! Do you remember all the lines to the Lobster Quadrille?

Oh God....all I remember was that I had to sing and do a "Turtle Dance". There is some badly shot video of it floating around somewhere. I won "Best Featured Actor" that year for the Drama depts year end awards.

Man, they have been talking about this for years. This is definitely one of those "believe it when I see it" things.

Personally, I can't wait to see this, you know, if it ever does happen. I first heard about this about a year ago when I read Burton on Burton.

It'll be fine, I can assure you. And to be honest, why make a redo of Alice in Wonderland? How many people honestly know anything about "Through the Looking Glass"? I think it's cool.

And I'm still waiting on my American McGee's Alice film, but pfft, that'll happen on the 12th of NEVER.

I just wanted to come in here and say that Tim Burton is severely overrated.

Ska wrote:It'll be fine, I can assure you. And to be honest, why make a redo of Alice in Wonderland? How many people honestly know anything about "Through the Looking Glass"? I think it's cool.

And I'm still waiting on my American McGee's Alice film, but pfft, that'll happen on the 12th of NEVER.

See, that's what I thought Burton was making. Seems like he's just ripping that off. I know that's a bold statement, but it really seems that way.

Plus, there's another set of books, a trilogy, called The Looking Glass Wars, which has similarities, but it's its own story. Also supposed to become a movie mind you. Too much Alice.

Joshua wrote:I just wanted to come in here and say that Tim Burton is severely overrated.

Partially, yes, but Nightmare is one of my favorite pictures and Batman oozed awesomeness, otherwise, not a giant Burton fan so I'm apprehensive about Alice.

BlueMaxx wrote:Plus, there's another set of books, a trilogy, called The Looking Glass Wars, which has similarities, but it's its own story. Also supposed to become a movie mind you. Too much Alice.

You can never have too much Alice. She's like Dorothy Gale in that regards.

Looking-Glass Wars (At least the first book) is awesome! I need to get the other two books and finish them out.

While i AM a Burton fan, not everything he does is great. Planet of the Apes? Meh. Charlie & the Chocolate Factory? Icky and weird. The Corpse Bride? Didn't hold my interest.

I'm pretty sure those movies were all consecutive, too. Rough patch for him, IMO.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was spot-on when held up against the book. Held up against the Gene Wilder movie 'Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory', then yes, it's creepy and weird. But it's Roald Dahl's creation from beginning to end.

That's why I don't understand the need to bastardize a perfectly good dark and whimsical story. Burton's already proven that he can do wonders with good source material. Changing it like this just smacks of self-indulgence.

riv1 wrote:While i AM a Burton fan, not everything he does is great. Planet of the Apes? Meh. Charlie & the Chocolate Factory? Icky and weird. The Corpse Bride? Didn't hold my interest.

I'm pretty sure those movies were all consecutive, too. Rough patch for him, IMO.

That's exactly how I feel. Can't review Corpse Bride, never cared to see it. I was afraid it would quell my like for Nightmare Before Christmas. Planet of the Apes...I never even liked the originals, so...ya. Nothing beats Wilder. Don't care if it is more accurate. The Batmans weren't that great. Sorry, traditionalists. Didn't even care that much as a kid. And kids are easy to appease!

Love Big Fish, Sleepy Hollow, Nightmare, Beetlejuice is still fun to me, and I enjoyed Sweeney Todd. Burton made me sit through a musical and frickin' enjoy it. Bravo.

I am definately shocked and appalled by those changes.
He's got a challenge right there, messing with such a fond piece of everyone's childhood memories, and I'm really sad to see some of those characters go.

I'm sure it'll be fine (I hope) in the long run. I'll just trust that he'll do what he does best, hold known things up to the crazy funhouse mirror so we get to play in zany humorously unexpected playful creepyness and loney twisted souls in a visualy and sound enhanced masterpiece enviroment, which is my favorite part of what he does.

Ya, I'm sure he'll make it at least fun.

Joshua wrote:I just wanted to come in here and say that Tim Burton is severely overrated.

QFFuckingT

Johnny Depp as the Mad Hatter. I would've never guessed. :rolleyes:


Weird that it started last year, and won't be out until March 5, 2010.

KingConan93 wrote:

Joshua wrote:I just wanted to come in here and say that Tim Burton is severely overrated.

Partially, yes, but Nightmare is one of my favorite pictures and Batman oozed awesomeness, otherwise, not a giant Burton fan so I'm apprehensive about Alice.

1.) While Burton is an executive producer on NBC he didn't do that much on the movie. In fact, because he was so busy with Batman Returns he was never actually on set for NBC. Now I'm not saying that he should get no credit for the movie, however it has always irked me that he has gotten solo credit (and is very commonly thought to be the director of the movie) while Henry Selick has received none.
2.) Batman is a good movie, but it's not a good Batman movie. I'd consider Burton's Batman movies some of his lesser work.

Again, I'm not saying Burton is bad by any means, there are a number of his movies that I quite enjoy, I just find him to be very overrated and really despise how much credit people give him for Nightmare Before Christmas.