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Final Crisis

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alucardbarnivous
BlueMaxx
Fresh03
shiky800
Batman25JM
J Nova
shining knight
LordD3r3k
Metal Misfit
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1Final Crisis Empty Final Crisis Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:01 pm

Metal Misfit

Metal Misfit
Zombie
Zombie

So I just read FC (the main series) the other day for the first time and I have to say it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be by most online communities.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a great story and there was TONS of stuff I didn't really get, but it was okay. Definitely *not* the kind of event DC needed though. Laughing

http://metalmisfit.wordpress.com

2Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:54 pm

LordD3r3k

LordD3r3k
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Metal Misfit wrote:So I just read FC (the main series) the other day for the first time and I have to say it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be by most online communities.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a great story and there was TONS of stuff I didn't really get, but it was okay. Definitely *not* the kind of event DC needed though. Laughing

Agreed. It wasn't great, but I wouldn't have given the 'trainwreck' label people tried to make it

3Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:17 am

shining knight

shining knight
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

yep precisely

4Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:05 am

J Nova

J Nova
Cadet
Cadet

It was a decent story until the end (last issue or two), where it all kind of fell apart. I felt as if I was witnessing the mind of Grant Morrison exploding before me, spraying all things in his imagination every which-a-way (the sexual connotations of that sentence just hit me....hurm...). It was so random and all over the place, it was like he was trying to cram too much into print. Honestly, he probably had a good idea that simply could not be conveyed properly into print or into the confines of the number of issues he had to work with.

5Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:11 pm

Batman25JM

Batman25JM
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

LordD3r3k wrote:Agreed. It wasn't great, but I wouldn't have given the 'trainwreck' label people tried to make it

I think trainwreck is a too nice a term for FC. Laughing

6Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:59 pm

LordD3r3k

LordD3r3k
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Batman25JM wrote:I think trainwreck is a too nice a term for FC. Laughing

2008 was a disappointing year for events all-together

7Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:28 pm

shiky800

shiky800
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

well it depends if you read it as a whole then it is a bad story. but if you read it as it came out it was a lot worse.

8Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:15 pm

Fresh03

Fresh03
Ninja
Ninja

I still wonder what the fuck happened to that whole Monarch storyline they had going during Countdown and Countdown Arena, Captain Atom with the power of all 52 Captain Atoms, an army of the strongest versions of almost all of the heroes in the DC Universe set to invade the Prime DCU.

Of course Superman/boy Prime showing up and destroying everything put the kibosh on that, but I liked that concept a whole lot when it was happening, actually that's about the only cool thing that happened in Countdown come to think of it.

To me that would have been far more fulfilling than the mess that Final Crisis turned out to be. The thought of all of the potential match ups as that concept played out had me legitimately excited about Final Crisis since I made the assumption that's what it would turn out to be, of course DC sure showed me what I can get for anticipating.

Morrison had some neat ideas in Final Crisis, he does have his moments, The Multiverse being common knowledge to every inhabitant of the main DC universe, his very well done portrayl of the GLC and their role in the DCU, the effects of a God being reborn on Earth, etc...

Unfortunatly from what Morrison wrote, post FC, he intended it to be more of more of an experiment and testing the idea boundries of what could be accomplished in comics, which to me suits an elseworlds title rather than a "Major Crossover" and it sounds like Dido had a hand in a few elements of the finale despite Morrison taking all of the blame for the series.

Of course outside of Batman's death there hasn't even been much aknowlegment of the events that occured, so it doesn't seem to have had much effect, which in my opinion is a good thing since the majority of Final Crisis came across as fairly nonsenical, I know several aspects of it still have me scratching my head.

9Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:52 pm

BlueMaxx

BlueMaxx
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

LordD3r3k wrote:
Batman25JM wrote:I think trainwreck is a too nice a term for FC. Laughing

2008 was a disappointing year for events all-together
It was definitely a terrible year. I'm wondering if it'll quell big events altogether. For at least awhile.

Also, yes, it was just terrible. And I like Grant Morrison.

Fresh03 wrote:I still wonder what the fuck happened to that whole Monarch storyline they had going during Countdown and Countdown Arena, Captain Atom with the power of all 52 Captain Atoms, an army of the strongest versions of almost all of the heroes in the DC Universe set to invade the Prime DCU.

Of course Superman/boy Prime showing up and destroying everything put the kibosh on that, but I liked that concept a whole lot when it was happening, actually that's about the only cool thing that happened in Countdown come to think of it.

To me that would have been far more fulfilling than the mess that Final Crisis turned out to be. The thought of all of the potential match ups as that concept played out had me legitimately excited about Final Crisis since I made the assumption that's what it would turn out to be, of course DC sure showed me what I can get for anticipating.

Morrison had some neat ideas in Final Crisis, he does have his moments, The Multiverse being common knowledge to every inhabitant of the main DC universe, his very well done portrayl of the GLC and their role in the DCU, the effects of a God being reborn on Earth, etc...

Unfortunatly from what Morrison wrote, post FC, he intended it to be more of more of an experiment and testing the idea boundries of what could be accomplished in comics, which to me suits an elseworlds title rather than a "Major Crossover" and it sounds like Dido had a hand in a few elements of the finale despite Morrison taking all of the blame for the series.

Of course outside of Batman's death there hasn't even been much aknowlegment of the events that occured, so it doesn't seem to have had much effect, which in my opinion is a good thing since the majority of Final Crisis came across as fairly nonsenical, I know several aspects of it still have me scratching my head.
These were some of the major reasons. He didn't follow up what people had spent two years of their lives on reading. Again, I like Morrison's writings when it is his own series (Invisibles, WE3), but he is a prick for doing this to everyone. Also, whoever the fuck the editors were...fire them...fucking toot-sweet.

10Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:14 am

shining knight

shining knight
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

sigh it just started to be reprinted in superman legends and batman legends so I have to buy it again *groan*

11Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:24 am

alucardbarnivous

alucardbarnivous
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

BlueMaxx wrote:These were some of the major reasons. He didn't follow up what people had spent two years of their lives on reading. Again, I like Morrison's writings when it is his own series (Invisibles, WE3), but he is a prick for doing this to everyone. Also, whoever the fuck the editors were...fire them...fucking toot-sweet.

I think blame falls much more on the editors than Grant. After 52, he told them what Final Crisis was going to be about so that they could set it up but instead they ended up telling a few of his stories or contradictory stuff (killing the New Gods, war among the Monitors). At the last minute, he had to start changing the story and Pacheco had to come in because Jones was given his amount of lead time to get it done and now had all these last minute ideas.

http://blog.myspace.com/alucardbarnivous

12Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:53 pm

shining knight

shining knight
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

^
and thats why bubbles the chimp would be a better editor than half of dcs current group

13Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:58 pm

superdoug

superdoug
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

"Editors" = "DiDio"

"DiDio" = "Full of Bullshit"

Very Happy Very Happy

14Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:01 pm

shining knight

shining knight
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

thats the real anti life equation right there

15Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:28 pm

alucardbarnivous

alucardbarnivous
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

superdoug wrote:"Editors" = "DiDio"

"DiDio" = "Full of Bullshit"

Very Happy Very Happy

Seems like after 52, he believed his own hype.

http://blog.myspace.com/alucardbarnivous

16Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:57 pm

BlueMaxx

BlueMaxx
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

alucardbarnivous wrote:
I think blame falls much more on the editors than Grant. After 52, he told them what Final Crisis was going to be about so that they could set it up but instead they ended up telling a few of his stories or contradictory stuff (killing the New Gods, war among the Monitors). At the last minute, he had to start changing the story and Pacheco had to come in because Jones was given his amount of lead time to get it done and now had all these last minute ideas.
Sure. Morrison did say in an interview after being asked about how it will follow 52 and Countdown by saying, "Fuck continuity." That should've been a pretty clear sign that he wasn't going to follow up. Heh. But, that's blaming the cops and not the criminal, you know?

17Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:26 pm

Spider_Fan14

Spider_Fan14
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Metal Misfit wrote:So I just read FC (the main series) the other day for the first time and I have to say it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be by most online communities.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a great story and there was TONS of stuff I didn't really get, but it was okay. Definitely *not* the kind of event DC needed though. Laughing

same here, it needed a better editor

18Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:04 pm

alucardbarnivous

alucardbarnivous
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

BlueMaxx wrote:Sure. Morrison did say in an interview after being asked about how it will follow 52 and Countdown by saying, "Fuck continuity." That should've been a pretty clear sign that he wasn't going to follow up. Heh. But, that's blaming the cops and not the criminal, you know?

If memory serves, what you refer to is when he started doing interviews for Final Crisis, he said FC had no connection to Countdown because he said what he was going to do to DiDio and Countdown did nothing towards it. Almost right after these comments were made, roughly three months or so before FC #1 hit, Grant said DiDio came to him and persuaded him to change the story to tie in FC and he simply said he'd try as best he could.

http://blog.myspace.com/alucardbarnivous

19Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:14 pm

BlueMaxx

BlueMaxx
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Nope..."Fuck continuity." was a direct quote.

20Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:38 pm

LOOSECANNON

LOOSECANNON
Zombie Pirate
Zombie Pirate

okay SO!

I decided to read the entire Final Crisis and Batman R.I.P. saga all in a matter of 5 days....

I started to read comics again after a 15-year layoff during the very end of Batman R.I.P. and Final Crisis (FC #6 and Batman #881 are among the first issues I purchased). None of these books made any sense to me, so I decided to "trade wait" and give it a go. Well, gathering all the proper materials, and reading all these issues/trades in this order made the wait all worth it:

52 (Weeks 30 and 47)
-Batman and Son (#655-658, 663-666)
-The Black Glove (Batman #667-675)
-Heart of Hush (Detective Comics #846-850)
-Final Crisis #1
-Final Crisis #2
Requiem
Rogue's Revenge #1-#3
-Final Crisis #3
Legion of Three Worlds #1-3
Revelations #1-5
Superman Beyond #1
Secret Files
Superman Beyond #2
-Final Crisis #4
Submit
Resist
Batman R.I.P. (Batman #676-681)
-Final Crisis #5
Batman #682-683
-Final Crisis #6
-Final Crisis #7
Legion of Three Worlds #4-#5
Detective Comics #851/Batman #684
Detective Comics #852/Batman #685
Nightwing #151-152
Robin #183
-Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? (Detective Comics #853/Batman #686)

For having little to no background on the New Gods, Seven Soldiers of Victory, Monitors, etc., Final Crisis was a lot easier to understand all in one wack than previously thought. I highly suggest reading Superman and the Legion of Super Heroes or Infinite Crisis to understand the Legion of 3 Worlds trade, Question's The Five Books of Blood to better understand Revelations, and various trades like some of the older Checkmate ones to understand some of the plot threads in FC. As for Batman R.I.P. and the Last Rites followups, I found it a lot more accesible the second time around, especially when reading the key earlier material found in 52, Batman & Son and The Black Glove. To me, this is the best Batman I've ever read.

***I don't have DC Universe #0, DC Universe: Last Will & Testament, and reading "Rage of the Red Lanterns" has more to do with Blackest Night than Final Crisis***

http://www.comicsbulletin.com

21Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:59 pm

Foreigner_Man

Foreigner_Man
Ninja
Ninja

I liked it. It was a bit wild, but it had great concepts and was a story that only Morrison could've done. One of my problems with it were the art, because J.G. Jones, while he's a terrific artist, really screwed up and fell behind, and, like he said, Doug Mahnke would have been a better artist to do the whole thing. Another was that while it did have great concepts, they could have been fleshed out more and built up more. Morrison can pull those off in stuff like Invisibles no problem, but it doesn't completely work here. But still, while it's not Morrison's best work, it's still good IMO.

22Final Crisis Empty Re: Final Crisis Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:06 pm

BlueMaxx

BlueMaxx
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

LOOSECANNON wrote:For having little to no background on the New Gods, Seven Soldiers of Victory, Monitors, etc., Final Crisis was a lot easier to understand all in one wack than previously thought. I highly suggest reading Superman and the Legion of Super Heroes or Infinite Crisis to understand the Legion of 3 Worlds trade, Question's The Five Books of Blood to better understand Revelations, and various trades like some of the older Checkmate ones to understand some of the plot threads in FC. As for Batman R.I.P. and the Last Rites followups, I found it a lot more accesible the second time around, especially when reading the key earlier material found in 52, Batman & Son and The Black Glove. To me, this is the best Batman I've ever read.

***I don't have DC Universe #0, DC Universe: Last Will & Testament, and reading "Rage of the Red Lanterns" has more to do with Blackest Night than Final Crisis***
I'll second the Batman & Son/Batman: The Black Glove/Batman: RIP for Final Crisis and The Five Books of Blood for Revelations. I have those two minis back to back because they're a direct correlation. They're both Rucka too.

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