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The Official MMA Thread

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1 The Official MMA Thread on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:28 pm

Anybody else watch the UFC card this weekend?

Top to bottom, maybe one of the best cards in the history of the sport.

Anderson Silva has cleaned out his division. It may be time for him to seriously think about contending in LHW. The St. Pierre fight, if it ever does materialize is going to take probably up to a year to happen. St. Pierre has said he wants to pack on 30 lbs at least before considering a fight with Silva.


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2 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:51 pm

Paroxysm

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Anderson Silva is the P4P King, without question.

There are a handful of really top strikers in the UFC & I'd class Vitor as one of them, but Anderson Silva is above them all.

Really it's gonna take someone to get Anderson Silva to the ground & practically hold him there for 5 rounds in order to beat him.. and even there he is dangerous with his elbows & submission capabilities.

Oh yea & Jon Jones, what a domination of Ryan Bader.. Bader's wrestling.. or at least his shots don't transfer into MMA that well. Jon Jones vs Shogun.. this is gonna be an interesting fight.

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3 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:08 pm

Paroxysm wrote:Anderson Silva is the P4P King, without question.

There are a handful of really top strikers in the UFC & I'd class Vitor as one of them, but Anderson Silva is above them all.

Really it's gonna take someone to get Anderson Silva to the ground & practically hold him there for 5 rounds in order to beat him.. and even there he is dangerous with his elbows & submission capabilities.

Oh yea & Jon Jones, what a domination of Ryan Bader.. Bader's wrestling.. or at least his shots don't transfer into MMA that well. Jon Jones vs Shogun.. this is gonna be an interesting fight.


They need a K-1 guy to come in and actually be able to compete with Silva strikewise.

Yeah Jon Jones is a bad man. I thought the fight with Bader would be a lot closer, but Bader was just outclassed from the get go.


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4 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 pm

Rath99

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That was one hell of a front kick by Silva!!


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5 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:17 pm

Rath99 wrote:That was one hell of a front kick by Silva!!


Now imagine if he was 6' 4" and an out of shape aikido master.


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6 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:47 am

Paroxysm

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Jon Jones will get his title shot against Mauricio Rua at UFC 128 next month.

Also the Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix is this Saturday. FEDOR!!!!!!!!!

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7 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:57 am

Fedor better watch out for a head kick. Bigfoot makes Gonzaga look like a toddler.


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8 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:42 pm

Love the fact that today the NSAC had to tell people to STFU about Silva supposedly greasing. It was a legitimate gripe BJ had about ST. Pierre, now people just want to say everybody is greasing.


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9 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:06 pm

Paroxysm

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Big Poppa Nick wrote:Fedor better watch out for a head kick. Bigfoot makes Gonzaga look like a toddler.

Fedor is miles above Bigfoot IMO. I'm stoked for a potential showdown with Alistair Overeem.

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10 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Paroxysm wrote:
Big Poppa Nick wrote:Fedor better watch out for a head kick. Bigfoot makes Gonzaga look like a toddler.

Fedor is miles above Bigfoot IMO. I'm stoked for a potential showdown with Alistair Overeem.

I thought he was miles above Werdum too...

Vitor Belfort saying Silva got lucky: http://www.bjpenn.com/profiles/blogs/vitor-belfort-states-anderson?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+bjpenndotcom+(BJPENN.COM+NEWS+BLOGS)&utm_content=FaceBook


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11 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:39 pm

Paroxysm

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Big Poppa Nick wrote:
Paroxysm wrote:
Big Poppa Nick wrote:Fedor better watch out for a head kick. Bigfoot makes Gonzaga look like a toddler.

Fedor is miles above Bigfoot IMO. I'm stoked for a potential showdown with Alistair Overeem.

I thought he was miles above Werdum too...

Vitor Belfort saying Silva got lucky: http://www.bjpenn.com/profiles/blogs/vitor-belfort-states-anderson?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+bjpenndotcom+(BJPENN.COM+NEWS+BLOGS)&utm_content=FaceBook

He is, Werdum even stated after the fight that he lucked out when he locked in the triangle choke. It was also very uncharacteristic of Fedor to just dive into Werdums guard like that.

Belfort's just making noise so he stays relevant. This was his 3rd comeback attempt and look what happened?

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12 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:19 pm

Anybody else watch Strikeforce last night?


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13 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:30 pm

Rath99

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Just saw it now. I love Arlovski but after being KO'd in 4 straight fights he might be better off taking a long break or stop fighting all together.

Fedor looked a little to passive. The luster is wearing off. It happens to all fighters.


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14 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:35 pm

Fedor seems to me a product of hype. I don't think he's ever been as good as advertised.

That being said the Grand Prix is a lot more interesting than I thought it would be. I bet Coker is pissed though with Arloski and Fedor out in the first round. So the most Marquee matchup they can have for the finals is Barnett/Rogers Vs the Overeem/Werdum winner.


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15 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:47 pm

Rath99

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Fedor was good. REALLY good. Check out some of his PRIDE stuff

Dana White tweeted a happy face after Fedor lost lol


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16 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:16 pm

I watched his Pride stuff. I'm saying from watching that, I don;t think he's as good as everyone made him out to be. He's fought very few true heavyweights, and when he has it usually has been people past their prime, or fighters that did not match up well with him.


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17 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:28 pm

Paroxysm

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Big Poppa Nick wrote:I watched his Pride stuff. I'm saying from watching that, I don;t think he's as good as everyone made him out to be. He's fought very few true heavyweights, and when he has it usually has been people past their prime, or fighters that did not match up well with him.



"haters gonna hate"

Look at everyone else that was around during Fedor's championship era (2003-2006) Look at who the champs were in UFC at the time, and anywhere else for that matter. Point being, everyone besides Fedor basically fell off the map, while Fedor continued to move forward. You're probably pretty new to the sport, so I can understand why you dont get the whole Fedor thing... But, when you put Fedor's full career in context, it really shows how special it was. Not only having very unorthodox stand-up, but taking fight ending shots and still winning, meanwhile having the body structure of a typical American football fan. He never played for points, never danced around the ring running from his opponents, never used the lay and pray game-plan. Hell his game plan was: wherever you wanna go, I'll go. You just dont see too many fighters with the "do or die" mentality like that...And to top it off, he won, over and over again,with the "do or die" mentality and fighting style, that alone is as impressive as hell.



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18 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:00 pm

I've been a fan since the Royce Gracie days. I used to have to get the bootleg tapes.

My criticisms of Fedor I feel are more than fair.

He has wins over Babalu, Matt Lindland, one a LHW, the other a middleweight.

Other than Cro Cop, Big Nog, and maybe Randleman, who did he fight? A bunch of no names. He fought Coleman, Arlovski, and Sylvia after they were already on a huge downward Spiral. The most impressive win in the past 5 years he had was over Brett Rogers.

Oh, that's right, he has an exhibition win over Aoki. He also fought Hung Man Choi.

At the same time, I'm not saying he's a bad fighter. I'm just saying the guy was a product of hype. We are also talking about a fighter who is only 34. He has a chance to cement his legacy as a top fighter, but doesn't seem to have the heart to continue.


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19 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:43 pm

Rath99

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Not everyone is Couture who for some miracle can fight into his 40's.

I truly believe that Fedor was the best in the world for some time.

People feared him before the fight ever started.

Yes he could have fought "bigger" names but he fought everyone in his organization.


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20 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:56 am

He had a chance to fight better competition. He backed down. The questions about how good he is are Fedor's own doing.


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21 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:15 pm

Paroxysm

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Big Poppa Nick wrote:I've been a fan since the Royce Gracie days. I used to have to get the bootleg tapes.

My criticisms of Fedor I feel are more than fair.

He has wins over Babalu, Matt Lindland, one a LHW, the other a middleweight.

Other than Cro Cop, Big Nog, and maybe Randleman, who did he fight? A bunch of no names. He fought Coleman, Arlovski, and Sylvia after they were already on a huge downward Spiral. The most impressive win in the past 5 years he had was over Brett Rogers.

Oh, that's right, he has an exhibition win over Aoki. He also fought Hung Man Choi.

At the same time, I'm not saying he's a bad fighter. I'm just saying the guy was a product of hype. We are also talking about a fighter who is only 34. He has a chance to cement his legacy as a top fighter, but doesn't seem to have the heart to continue.

Here is a list of his opponents win/loss records at the time of their respective bouts.

OPPONENT NAME WINS* LOSSES*
Martin Lazarov 1 0
Levon Lagvilava 0 1
Hiroya Takada 0 0
Ricardo Arona 2 0
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 20 12
Mihail Apostolov 0 0
Kerry Schall 4 2
Renato "Babalu" Sobral 15 2
Bobby Hoffman 27 5
Ryushi Yanagisawa 24 21
Lee Hasdell 14 13
Chris Haseman 18 11
Semmy Schilt 22 10
Heath Herring 20 7
*Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira 19 1
Egidijus Valavicius 4 2
Kazuyuki Fujita 9 3
Gary Goodridge 17 13
Yuji Nagata 0 1
*Mark Coleman 13 5
*Kevin Randleman 15 7
Naoya Ogawa 7 0
*Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira 24 2
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 24 15
Mirko Filipović 16 2
Zuluzinho 15 0
* Mark Coleman 15 7
Mark Hunt 5 2
Matt Lindland 20 4
Hong-Man Choi 1 0
*Tim Sylvia 24 4
*Andrei Arlovski 15 5
Brett Rogers 10 0
TOTAL 420 157

OPPONENTS WINNING PERCENTAGE 72.79%

His opponents win/loss percentage record = 73% at the time of their bouts.

That basically means that, on average, all of his opponents were in the top quarter of competition according to their win/loss records.

Besides, let's not overlook the fact that:

There is only ONE fighter that has beaten:

5 different X UFC champions
Coleman
Randleman
Sylvia
Nog
Arlovski

4 kick boxing champions
Schilt
Hunt
Goodridge
HMC

6 different MMA champions
Coleman
Randleman
Sylvia
Nog
Goodridge
Arlovski

2 silver olympic medalist
Lindland
Ogawa

1 ADCC open weight champion
Arona

Honorable mention
Mirko Crocop
3 time K-1 finalist
2005 GP finalist
2006 GP winner Post Fedor fight

There is only 1 fighter that has gone 30+ fights that has

- Never lost a decision.
- Never been sub'd
- Never been knocked out
- Never been knocked down

Only one fighter that has ever won 5 different mma championships.
- Wamma HW belt
- Pride HW belt
- Pride Grand Prix tournament
- Rings king of kings tournament
- Rings world class tournament

All while finishing 76% of his opponents.
A 25 fight win streak
With 22 victories in the first round
4 victories in the first minute
12 victories in the first 2 minutes

No other fighter in all MMA has any where near the list of accomplishments.



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22 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:39 pm

Rath99

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Damn that's some good stats!!

Where you on your HS debate team? Smile


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23 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:51 pm

Paroxysm

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I studied his past wins from a contextual perspective, thats all. Very Happy

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24 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:09 pm

Statistics can be bent to however you want to use them.

Martin Lazarov 0 - 2 - 0 0%
Levon Lagvilava 0 - 2 - 0 0%
Hiroya Takada 1-3-0 25%
Ricardo Arona 14-5-0 64%
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 25-8-2 71%
Mihail Apostolov 0-1-0 0%
Kerry Schall 23-12-1 64%
Renato Sobral 36-9-0 80%
Ryūshi Yanagisawa 24-25-9 42%
Lee Hasdell 6-4-4 42%
Chris Haseman 20-16-0 55%
Seemy Shilt 26-14-1 63%
Heath Herring 28-14-1 65%
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira 32-6-2 72%
Egidijus Valavičius 17-7-0 71%
Kazuyuki Fujita 15-9-0 63%
Gary Goodridge 23-23-1 50%
Yuji Nagata 0-2-0 0
Mark Coleman 16-10 61%
Kevin Randleman 17-15 53%
Naoya Ogawa 7-2 77%
Mirko Filipović 27-8-3 71%
Wagner da Conceição Martins 20-7 74%
Mark Hunt 5-7 42%
Matt Lindland 22-8 73%
Choi Hong-man 2-3 40%
Tim Sylvia 28-7 80%
Andrei Arlovski 15-9 63%
Brett Rogers 11-2 85%
Fabricio Werdum 14-4-1 74%
Antonio Silva 16-2 88%

Combined OPP Win Percentage 52.7%

In comparison is Big Nog

David Dodd 4-7 36%
Nate Shroeder 10-10 50%
Valentijn Overeem 29-25 54%
Iouri Kotchkine 4-4-1 50%
Jeremy Horn 87-20-5 77%
Andrei Kopylov 6-13 31%
Dan Henderson 26-8 76%
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 25-8-2 71%
Achmed Labasanov 7-5 58%
Kiyoshi Tamura 33-13-3 67%
Volk Han 20-8 71%
Hiromitsu Kanehara 27-25-3 49%
Gary Goodridge 23-23-1 50%
Mark Coleman 16-10 61%
Heath Herring 28-14-1 65%
Enson Inoue 12-8 60%
Sanae Kikuta 29-7-4 72%
Bob Sapp 11-6-1 61%
Seemy Shilt 26-14-1 63%
Fedor Emelianenko 31-3-1 89%
Ricco Rodriguez 45-11 80%
Mirko Filipović 27-8-3 71%
Hirotaka Yokoi 11-5 69%
Sergei Kharitonov 18-4 82%
Paweł Nastula 2-4 33%
Wagner da Conceição Martins 20-7 74%
Fabricio Werdum 14-4-1 74%
Josh Barnett 26-5 84%
Tim Sylvia 28-7 80%
Frank Mir 14-5 74%
Randy Couture 19-10 66%
Cain Velasquez 9-0 100%


OPP Total Winning Percentage 53.9%

Big Nog has beaten 7 former UFC Champs, and fought two others.

He also has beaten champs from two other orgs.

He has beaten two K-1 champs.

He beat an Olympic Gold Medalist in Judo.

Instead of just beating Abu Dhabi champs, he is one.

His BJJ championships are too numerous too list, as are the accomplishments of the other fighters he has fought.

Using Fedor's opponent's records when they fought is misleading, because a huge number of his opponents washed out of the sport with only a few fights.

Just looking at the records of who they have fought, it's obvious who has fought the tougher opponents. Yes, Fedor has beaten Big Nog, but my point throughout all of this has been that Fedor's dominance is a myth. You don't see too many guys on Nog's fight list that are 0-2, 0-1, or whatever. Fedor was protected by his management.

Fedor was just submitted also. The fight with Silva was not a doctor's stoppage, it was a ref's stoppage which is a TKO.

We can go back and forth on this all we want. That's the great thing about being fans, is that we can have these types of discussions.


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25 Re: The Official MMA Thread on Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:27 pm

Rath99

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If you think he's a product of hype imagine the hype if he was in the UFC? Smile

These debates are the cornerstone of the fight game (boxing and mma).


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