Screw You, LEARNING!

I just got out of a meeting with the Director of the MFA program for Creative Writing at my University. I finished my Master's of Arts last year in Creative Writing, but I wasn't thrilled about how few doors it opened for me. Also, I'd like to have a "terminal" degree so that I can teach on the university level.

I write Fantasy. It's what I love. It's what I love to read and it - better than all other types of literature, I feel - best represents the dreaming nature of reading and the sub-creator that is the writer.

In this meeting I was told that the most important part of my application would be a 2 page summation of my reading history for the past year. In the director's description of the summary, she mentioned that she wanted to make sure I wasn't just reading "trash." I immediately knew what she meant by that, but still I hoped for the best.

When she asked me what I wanted to write, I told her Fantasy. I told her that I found it inspirational, that I loved the larger-than-life qualities, and that I felt it took issues and emotions from our own world and put them into something larger and more magnificent.

She listened to me with a smile. As soon as I finished, she told me that I probably wouldn't be able to write Fantasy for the program (though she did say some Thesis Advisers might allow it) and that I should probably try writing "real literature."

I was respectful, friendly, and full of smiles while she told me how most people who read Fantasy only do so because they are - essentially - idiots with no sense of culture and that they all switch to writing "real literature" once they realize how much better it is.

I thanked her for meeting me and left.

Am I completely out-of-line to be full of rage right now? This isn't the first time I've encountered such closed-mindedness regarding the Fantasy Genre. I think I am mostly disappointed because I have been so happy with how open this school has been in the past. (My thesis for my graduate degree was a Role-Playing Game for cripe's sake!)

At this point I'm not even sure I want to enter the program. I'm sure that for most classes I would still be able to write anything I wanted, but I'm not sure I'm willing to confirm to their boxed-in idea of what literature should be for any classes. I have been building a world for the past 10 years. I've written 3 screenplays, a role-playing game, half of a novel, and created a strategy board game all set in this world.

On the other hand, I don't feel like my novel-writing skills are up to par yet. I would like to really focus on the art of crafting a novel that anyone can enjoy, yet still be able to write something that pours from my heart. I also want to be able to teach students to find their own passion in writing and to delve deeply into their own dreams.

So... from here, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Any thoughts? Should I just bite the bullet and write "Modern Fiction" for the next 3 years just to earn the right to write what I want after that? Maybe I should just say, "Screw the extra degree!" I am confident in what I write, even if I write it just for myself or for my wife to read. I have a story I want to tell and I have the shuttle for that tale. Should I just stick with that and spend the time I would have spent in class writing myself to the bone?

Help me, POPulation. You're my only hope!

Just fucking write, dude.

There's a couple of choices here.

1. Conform so that you can earn the degree that you want to be able to maybe someday teach at that level to maybe keep this from happening to someone else who might not have the fortitude to keep at it.

or 2. Give up and write what you want when you want. Knowing that you possibly won't be able to teach at the collegiate level without this degree.

I guess it all comes down to a choice of if you want to write your story or do you want to be able to teach and encourage the next generation.

It's a tough choice but if it were me I'd suck it up and write what they want knowing it will get me to where I want to be.

I don't particularly want to go back to school to continue my education BUT I have the opportunity, and it will lead me to place where I will earn more and possibly be able to teach, which I enjoy. So, I'm gonna suck it up and go back to school. Mizzou here I come.

Am I completely out-of-line to be full of rage right now?

No. I have yet to meet anyone who likes to be talked down to and/or have their interests mocked.

I think this woman has misunderstood the potential for genre writing, and has completely narrowed the definition of literature to include a few select works within a university-defined canon. This has both its ups and its downs. Fantasy (and its twin, sci-fi) can be the premise for some of the best allegory in literature. However, its uses outside that can be limited. Dante’s “Divine Comedy” is one of the most impressive works of literature and allegory in existence, but it is obviously a work of fantasy. Scifi in particular is good at discussing contexts of society, usually in the form of futuristic utopias almost all of which tend to hide fatal secrets. 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are both excellent examples of this. I think even Duke offers a doctoral program on utopian societies in science fiction.

Its nature as an implement of escapism can be its downfall though. When we think of escapist literature, works like Divine Comedy don’t exactly spring to mind. If you’re writing something like that in a graduate level course, then I don’t think your advisor was exactly wrong. She was wrong, however, to disparage genre fiction the way she did. That was ignorant on her part.

What I would do is try and find a second opinion. Another advisor, another professor, someone else to talk to about what you want to accomplish with your degree. I can just about guarantee you if you just try to force yourself through an advanced degree like a doctorate, YOU WILL WANT TO KILL YOURSELF. I’ve seen it happen to a lot of graduate students. Consider this, think about all the work you did for your master’s. It’s going to double when you pursue your doctorate. If you have no desire to really do what this advisor is doing, the worst thing you can do to yourself would be to make yourself do it anyway.

Fortunately, the nature of advanced degrees lend themselves some flexibility. Ask yourself some questions: would you ever enjoy writing modern fiction? Are there fantasy books/stories that you’ve written where the characters and their emotional experiences could be applicable in a modern setting?

If, after you’ve talked to another professor or adviser, and they let you work within fantasy, think about how you can make your work reflect “literature” as much as possible. You’ve got an education, use it! I’m sure at some point you’ve studied literary theory, critical theory, things like that. What principles do you remember most strongly? What writers did you latch onto in your reading? What made those pieces memorable, and how do those ideas incorporate into a fantasy book?

Ultimately, it is not the genre of the piece that lends itself to being good “literature.” It is the emotional, social, and humanistic impact that lingers. Whether it’s Frodo’s journey to Mount Doom, or the sacrifice of Sidney Carton, the idea is always what’s important.

I guess I’ll close it out with one of my favorite quotes from Neil Gaiman: “Trust your story.”

Make it work for YOU. Do what you LOVE.

Good luck.

...and sorry this is so long.

JK Rowling, JRR Tolkien and Lewis Carrol would all disagree with this chick.

Tell her to check the box office receipts for the highest grossing movies of all time:

1. Avatar
2. Titanc (not really fantasy I guess)
3. LOTR: RotK
4. PotC: DMC
5. Toy Story
6. Alice in Wonderland
7. The Dark Knight
8. Harry Potter: atPS
9. PotC: aWE
10. Harry Potter: atOotP


and on and on and on... The first non fantasy/sci fi movie (besides Titanic, even though major liberties were taken) is... The DaVinci Code at #35

Fantasy/Sci-Fi is where the money is my man. Keep it going and then buy a wing of that school.

(._Y_.) wrote:JK Rowling, JRR Tolkien and Lewis Carrol would all disagree with this chick.

Tell her to check the box office receipts for the highest grossing movies of all time:

1. Avatar
2. Titanc (not really fantasy I guess)
3. LOTR: RotK
4. PotC: DMC
5. Toy Story
6. Alice in Wonderland
7. The Dark Knight
8. Harry Potter: atPS
9. PotC: aWE
10. Harry Potter: atOotP


and on and on and on... The first non fantasy/sci fi movie (besides Titanic, even though major liberties were taken) is... The DaVinci Code at #35

Fantasy/Sci-Fi is where the money is my man. Keep it going and then buy a wing of that school.

Uhm...I don't really think comparing box office movies to literature (from either genre fiction or otherwise) is really the best way to make the point, although I totally see what you're trying to get at. Almost every movie on there is some form of escapism (and please God do not try to call "The Da Vinci Code" literature), which doesn't lend itself to what makes a work of "literature" be it fantasy, scifi, modern, etc. really great. Some of the most famous and influential works from fantasy and scifi aren't on there, and the ones that are on there (the only possible exceptions being the LOTR movies just because they were adapted so faithfully) really aren't exemplary of powerful works of fantasy fiction.

I mean...Avatar literally isn't anything more than Disney's Pocahontas reenacted with CGI ThunderSmurfs. What made that movie successful had relatively little to do with its thematic content, it was all about how stunning it was visually and that it was filmed in a format that's pretty revolutionary.

The others are all either amalgamations or permutations of their literary predecessors or borrow heavily from the literary themes of other books.

So it's not really "where the money's at" so to speak. The money is in the business of escapism, which has very little quality on its own...I submit as an example the "Twilight" series. That book's only lasting quality (if you can call it that) is that people are going to look back and say "wow, people spent millions and millions of dollars on THAT?!"

I know this isn't exactly relevant to the discussion at hand, I just thought it was necessary to point out those differences.

Boobs isn't exactly wrong though...the examples might not exactly be relevant to the context of what your advisor is talking about, but he is right in that people enjoy fantasy, in all its forms.

Yeah that's what I was trying to get at. And you could make the argument that Gone with the Wind would be number 3 on the list if inflation adjustments were taken into account, but seriously if Gone with the Wind were in theatres with Lord of the Rings, what would you see? I would see LotR. Gone with the Wind had no competition.

If you write it, people will come/read. Also in Stephanie Meyer's case you need to know voodoo or something, cause I don't know how Twilight is as popular as it is.

(._Y_.) wrote:Gone with the Wind had no competition.

Except for a little movie that could that came out the same year called The Wizard of Oz. Compare -those- numbers, bewbz!

Okay so it had one other movie to compete against. (also Fantasy btw)

I always stress to my students to find a way to make money doing what you love. If you can't do that, though, life doesn't give a damn. -The real world, as it turns out, is unforgiving and can be harsh.

-Sometimes, sadly, we have to play the game. Sometimes the rules are altered against us. Sometimes the referees are ignorant. The game, however, still exists, and that sucks.

-Real fantasy writers are masters of allegory, not writers of fancy nonsense. Academically, this person should know this. Her not knowing that is tragic, and, if you have the guts to do so, could use a gut-check in that regard.

No sacrifice, no victory.

Learning is a two way conduit, professors learn from students just as students learn from them. Show them the ridiculous folly of their ways.

Get your degree young man, go teach, become a department chair and change the damn reading curriculum! One of my professors became the head of the English Department specifically so he could teach a course on Sci-Fi as Literature. This shit takes time, but it needs to be done.

Go for it!

This reminds me of what I learned about in my life drawing class I just finished. My teacher in that said that it's important to learn pure skill first, and then learn style later. Basically, he told us that when you can draw with no style, just pure "what's there", you would be able to master any style after that, because you're essentially learning the building blocks. So instead of starting out drawing comic book characters, he told us we should be drawing real anatomy and understanding that first. I'm not telling you to bite the bullet, but people do have to work their way up in the world.

A girl that works as a designer for Paul Frank visited our school and said one of the most important things in the industry is learning to basically do all the shit jobs to work up to what you want. She told us things like "grit your teeth and bear it when somebody wants you to pick up coffee". She said there's a lot of shit work that you have to do to get to where you want to be. Nobody starts out on top.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I guess I just feel like I've already been through all their requirements and it's time for me to write (and read) what I want. My Master's degree was 75% "literature" from the the Higher Education Canon, so I don't feel the need to keep spreading out my focus. My idea of pursuing further education in writing would be to refine and re-focus my trade.

I guess I'll have to go the alternative route to teaching at the collegiate level: massive publication.

Well... today begins National Novel Writing Month. Let's get started.

vikoros wrote:
I guess I'll have to go the alternative route to teaching at the collegiate level: massive publication.

Well... today begins National Novel Writing Month. Let's get started.

^ Nice.