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Dark Avengers

+13
Mnemosis
Fresh03
hrdwrkngXsoldier
Rath99
Metal Misfit
Batman25JM
LOOSECANNON
Aussiemandias
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prescribeddrone
Bigtymin504
Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty
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101Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:45 pm

LOOSECANNON

LOOSECANNON
Zombie Pirate
Zombie Pirate

There's no possible way I can read all that, especially since it's about the Sentry--who I like now.

Dark Avengers #15

This issue makes no sense. It explains in better detail what happens at the end of Siege #3, yet for the majority feels 3 months too old. Marvel has never been more screwed up with continuity than this whole post-Dark Reign mess. Ever since the much-hyped, not-recognized-enough "List" series of titles, things have made absolutely no sense release-wise. I don't feel like getting into this again, so I'll end the review on a positive review and just say it's the second to last issue. That; it was entertaining, pretty to look at, and did offer a little better backstory (post-back-story?) for the final page reveal in Siege #3. Argh.

3/5 Bags&Boards - With one issue to go, you mind as well pick this one up too.

http://www.comicsbulletin.com

102Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:03 am

prescribeddrone

prescribeddrone
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Yeah, while I love this book I agree, I dislike how this and NA are usually a few days or hours behind the actual event. I'd prefer it if they used these books to build up stuff FROM Siege #3 like BN does with GL books. If they want to build towards it, it should have been done a few issues ago before Siege #3.

103Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:52 am

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

LOOSECANNON wrote:There's no possible way I can read all that, especially since it's about the Sentry--who I like now.

Dark Avengers #15

This issue makes no sense. It explains in better detail what happens at the end of Siege #3, yet for the majority feels 3 months too old. Marvel has never been more screwed up with continuity than this whole post-Dark Reign mess. Ever since the much-hyped, not-recognized-enough "List" series of titles, things have made absolutely no sense release-wise. I don't feel like getting into this again, so I'll end the review on a positive review and just say it's the second to last issue. That; it was entertaining, pretty to look at, and did offer a little better backstory (post-back-story?) for the final page reveal in Siege #3. Argh.

3/5 Bags&Boards - With one issue to go, you mind as well pick this one up too.

In terms of this Dark Avengers tie-in arc to Siege, its just non-linear storytelling, something very common practice in comics. This arc is about explaining and providing background on Sentry and why he is the way he is in Siege. Its supposed to be providing background, kinda like what the New and Mighty Avengers books did during Secret Invasion.

104Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:10 am

LOOSECANNON

LOOSECANNON
Zombie Pirate
Zombie Pirate

I understand. Like I said, as I was reading this I was enjoying it but like you said in your review, not much happened. I actually thought a few things happened. The artwork was REALLY good. But this is not a great book.

http://www.comicsbulletin.com

105Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:44 am

Aussiemandias

Aussiemandias
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

I'm not sure whether issue #3 was good or not - it seemed okay - but I'm starting to get a little frustrated by the incredible dragging out of what The Sentry really is. I have to say that if we don't have a reveal by the end of Siege I may just go completely nuts. Mad I've loved everything Bendis has done with The Sentry over the last 12 months, making him into a truly scary character (I don't see him as a villain or a hero anymore), but we need to be told what's going on. The time has come. Dragging it on much longer is wrong and probably a little too Claremont-esque.

As far as inconsistency with the character goes (Wade always draws you into those "discussions" Bigtymin!) I really don't give a crap. As he stands now The Sentry is completely off-the-planet-stone-motherless-freaking-nuts. Nothing he's been doing for a good period of time has been consistent. I think you could make a good case for laying the blame for any discrepencies in the character on that.

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:Well there isn't really a point in me reviewing this particular issue, I think you guys have hit all the nails head on. However, I do want to comment on Bendis' writing chops.

I think he has done a tremendous job to flesh out Sentry(Beyonder) and has done a satisfactory job with the Dark Reign and Seige. I think it is difficult to write a character that is so powerful. You see DnA doing a great job with it out in space with Gladiator, and I think Bendis has done more for Bob Reynolds than any other writer has. There are so many small details that I think people miss that don't prescribe to the Sentry is the Beyonder theory.... so here are a couple interesting tidbits regarding that theory that seem to make little things make sense.

1. The entire coming back from the dead 4 times thing. It takes people of imense power to do that, and there aren't many in the Universe who could.

2. Sentry's interaction with Molecule Man. They both would have vertually no affect on one another because they are both segments of the same cosmic cube...well if Sentry is the Beyonder.

3. Bob's wife probably isn't dead. He will finder her because of the ring. I believe that bendis showed a close up of the wedding ring a couple of issues back because it means something. With my Beyonder theory I think that the ring may be the small part of the cosmic cube that chipped off forever ago.

I have many, more things, but like I've said before: If you go back and reread everything the Sentry or Beyonder has been in over the last 7 years having in mind that Bob Reynolds is the Beyonder's new attempt at studying humanity and being a hero, so much more makes sense.

Even if I am wrong, the ride and the story has been outstanding, and if this is a new entity all together I won't be upset. A little disappointed, but not upset. I think the last 7 years of Marvel under the writers we have had bring us these characters and story's couldn't have improved upon much. Even though it may appear that Bendis ignored something like Sentry's psi powers, I doubt it. He could have wanted to accept Hawkeye's lie on some other level that we aren't seeing. Maybe it wasn't Norman that was holding the Void in... Maybe it was the presense of Bob's wife that kept that in check. Since Sentry is all Voided out, that intity may want things to go this way.

I think all in all, MPD Superman times infinity has equaled one of the most interesting characters in comics in a long time.
I think we've seen enough over the last few months to show that The Sentry is something else entirely and NOT the Beyonder. I think your Beyonder theory is very shortly going to RIP.

Hey did anyone else get the feeling that some panels in this issue were drawn by someone else? I thought there were some bits that didn't actually look like Deodato's work. Maybe I'm imagining it or maybe he was trying somethign a bit different (they almost looked painted).

106Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:47 am

Heytherejeffro

Heytherejeffro
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

One other thing about event tie-ins is that companies are now trying to make sure that you needn't buy 15 titles a month to get the full story. This Dark Avengers issue provides background that enriches the main story, but is not required to be able to follow the major event.

https://www.facebook.com/heytherejeffro

107Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:52 pm

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Aussiemandias wrote:Hey did anyone else get the feeling that some panels in this issue were drawn by someone else? I thought there were some bits that didn't actually look like Deodato's work. Maybe I'm imagining it or maybe he was trying somethign a bit different (they almost looked painted).
Yeah I think it was all Deodato but with a different colorist or maybe a painter for some scenes, particularly the Bullseye/Lindy scene. Which by the way was really intense. Its like we knew what was about to happen and that there would be no help coming for Lindy. And of course Bullseye being the sick puppy he is, had to play some mind games with her first. I liked the end where Victoria Hand catches Norman and Bullseye kinda glance at eachother in approval...I hope Hand sees the light and comes on the good guys' side after all this.

108Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:31 pm

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Bendis says some very interesting stuff about Sentry and the Void...
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25450


There's been a lot of speculation about this page and what it reveals about the Void's true nature, with one line of thought being that maybe the Sentry's encounter with Carnage back in your first "New Avengers" story ended up with Carnage and the Void merging into a new entity.

[Laughs] I saw that too. I also saw that he is now evil incarnate in the form of a red lobster. That's also not true.

What I've always enjoyed about The Void is, the character itself has all these different physical manifestations. They're unexplained until you realize he's got the power of someone, say, like a Molecule Man. He's got power over physical space, but his mental illness makes it where he creates these creatures. Some people with severe bipolar disorders see these creatures in the corner of their eye, and I've actually known people who this has happened to. I knew someone who literally had to sculpt them into creation to make them go away. So my version of this is he is someone who, with his power, literally creates them in the persona of the Void. This is the latest manifestation, and I believe the creepiest.

And I've always loved how different artists have interpreted that. Deodato drew the Void as this black mass, and Jae Lee had him as these tendrils. I like how every artist came up with a different persona for the Void. I think that says a lot about the artist, as well.

With the Void about to unleash hell on the Avengers, I suppose it's a good time to ask you about his partnership with Osborn. We know why The Sentry's alter ego, Bob Reynolds, worked with Norman, but why did his dark half, The Void, also choose to play along?

They are the same person. I don't think it's clearly a case of The Void and Bob. It isn't like one personality takes over the other. I think there's varying degrees of each in the different versions that you see, like the best version of Bob had a little bit of The Void in it so he could kick some ass. That was the Sentry who ripped Carnage in half. Without that influence, you get this simpering guy who can't move. That's Bob on his own.

So, The Sentry is not a classic case of Multiple Personality disorder?

No. I've done those stories before, and I wouldn't classify it as this. Bob is a sick man, with the power of a god, who created The Void to be all these things that are in his head that he cannot control. Scary!

109Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:25 pm

hrdwrkngXsoldier

hrdwrkngXsoldier
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

And the carnage theory crashes and burns....The Beyonder theory still stands.

110Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Sun May 09, 2010 10:54 pm

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Dark Avengers #16 (final issue) is hitting this week. Apparently it's meant to be read AFTER Siege #4 so just a heads up.

preview: http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.12333.first_look~colon~_dark_avengers_%2316


That art looks awesome as usual. I'm definitely gonna miss this book. =/

111Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Sun May 09, 2010 11:19 pm

prescribeddrone

prescribeddrone
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Damnit, this Wednesday is going to be a winner.

112Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Sun May 09, 2010 11:35 pm

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

prescribeddrone wrote:Damnit, this Wednesday is going to be a winner.

I know! So many great books out this Wed, I dunno how I'm gonna afford them all...

113Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Sun May 09, 2010 11:41 pm

prescribeddrone

prescribeddrone
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

I should be getting about 10 or 11 and there's like 6 or 7 must haves for me Very Happy

I don't know what to read first.

114Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon May 10, 2010 12:24 pm

hrdwrkngXsoldier

hrdwrkngXsoldier
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

read Siege 4 first according to Bendis.

115Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon May 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Aussiemandias

Aussiemandias
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hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:read Siege 4 first according to Bendis.
That's what Bigtymin posted up above too. yes

116Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon May 10, 2010 7:32 pm

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
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Zombie Ninja

Aussiemandias wrote:
hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:read Siege 4 first according to Bendis.
That's what Bigtymin posted up above too. yes

Yep. Smile

I'm thinking the order is Siege #4, Dark Avengers #16, then New Avengers Finale.

117Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Mon May 10, 2010 7:44 pm

hrdwrkngXsoldier

hrdwrkngXsoldier
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

then thunderbolts was probably supposed to be after the finale.

118Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Tue May 11, 2010 4:20 am

TheBrownLantern

TheBrownLantern
Cadet
Cadet

Ugh. I'm going to miss this title a lot. I loved them as the Thunderbolts and then their whole re-invention as Avengers...well, I thought that was kind of genius, really. The series always was a good read. Deodato's art really matched with the set-up. Its a shame its ending....don't know how excited I am about the new Heroic Age, to be honest. HA! Oh well, C'est la vie.

119Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Wed May 12, 2010 7:53 pm

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
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Zombie Ninja

Dark Avengers #16

And with that, Norman Osborn's Dark Reign is officially over. We saw the fates of each Dark Avenger in this. Venom seemed to accept arrest but Moonstone and Bullseye didn't go down that easy. And of course that crafty Daken was able to find his way out. The art was good as usual, but the different coloring style we saw last issue didn't quite work at times. The Sentry wasn't addressed in this though, which was weird. But I think the other books this week addressed a lot to do with him. The Biblical allusions in the beginning make sense now with the "Angel of Death" claim by Norman. huh

There were a few things I really loved about this issue. Thor's talk with Phobos was great, I hope he takes Thor up on that offer to meet his "Olypmus kin". And I really loved what Bendis did with the fate of Victoria Hand. She's an awesome character that has really grown throughout this series. I'm glad that Steve saw some potential in her and hopefully we'll see her play a role in the Avengers books going forward. Also, the end with Norman was just perfect if you ask me. He's locked up in his cell explaining why he did what he thought was right, to none other than himself, the Green Goblin. You almost feel sorry for the guy cuz he'll be locked in cell with himself.

The letter by Bendis at the end was a nice touch too. I like that he gave a ton of credit to Warren Ellis for setting the table for this book. It was a great series overall and I'll definitely miss it.

120Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Wed May 12, 2010 7:58 pm

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty
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Bigtymin504 wrote:The Biblical allusions in the beginning make sense now with the "Angel of Death" claim by Norman. huh

I'm hoping this is truly explained. Siege, Fallen Sun, and Embedded had nothing of worth on this. Norm screaming he was the Angel of Death did little for me since Norm is, well, crazy.

121Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Wed May 12, 2010 8:09 pm

Bigtymin504

Bigtymin504
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:
Bigtymin504 wrote:The Biblical allusions in the beginning make sense now with the "Angel of Death" claim by Norman. huh

I'm hoping this is truly explained. Siege, Fallen Sun, and Embedded had nothing of worth on this. Norm screaming he was the Angel of Death did little for me since Norm is, well, crazy.

Haha yeah. The Fallen issue was basically just a love letter by Paul Jenkins for a character he created. I'm wondering if this was left somewhat ambiguous on purpose, possibly to leave the door open for future stories on it.

122Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Thu May 13, 2010 2:53 pm

hrdwrkngXsoldier

hrdwrkngXsoldier
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Zombie Ninja

Dark Avengers #16

Again we at least received a spoiler warning again in this book. I’m thankful for that, but still would have preferred the chapter numbering system that the X-events have been using. If you read Siege #4 you pretty much know what is going on and most of the book is predictable from the beginning. This seemed like something that Bendis and company through together to fill in the gaps but was actually welcome additional content to the story. This issue could have been called Dark Avengers: Siege Fallout, because that is pretty much what the book was about.

The Dark Reign gimmick was a fun ride and the team of Dark Avengers that Norman Osborn had thrown together became and interesting and welcome read every month. The dynamics and character development that this issue brought to these villains of the marvel Universe was very well received most of the time. Mostly I looked forward to this book because Bendis had succeeded in making Sentry the most interesting character on the Marvel roster.

Bendis’ scripting in this final issue was superb (again a little predicable if you read all the Siege tie-ins,) and Deodato’s art was great with this story. The few action panels were excellent and the lighting and tone in each setting of the story was captured perfectly. I have to admit he drew the most monstrously awesome depiction of the Green Goblin that I have ever seen on the final pages of the story.

Basically this story tells us what happens to the Dark Avengers afterwards. Norman gets locked up, the key thrown away. HAMMER is dissolved, Victoria Hand and Soldiers that stayed within the parameters of UCMJ are absolved, Norman gets locked up in the depths of a prison to be all by himself, and everybody else is arrested as well, save three.

Dark Wolverine uses his survival skill to escape unscathed driving into the sunset. Sentry…well read Siege #4. Ares who was torn in half by Sentry also is among the fallen and we finally get to see a little more of Phobos dealing with this loss.

Knowing that Sentry is gone, I probably won’t have any Avengers titles on my pull list for some time. This gimmick totally brought me in and it was a fun read, but it is over and time to move on. (I’m just glad I selected this event over WWHs.)

4 out of 5 Acts of Justice

123Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Thu May 13, 2010 7:39 pm

LOOSECANNON

LOOSECANNON
Zombie Pirate
Zombie Pirate

Dark Avengers #16

In my New Avengers Finale review I was happy that Bendis at least got one of his title finales correct (since Siege #4 didn't live up to expectations). Dark Avengers is no different. It takes all the elements we both lauded and loathed during the near year and a half run on the title and steers them all to a screeching hault. Admittingly, this notion of Norman Osborne, and his new alias Iron Patriot, taking over the entire Marvel Universe with a new villainous group of Avengers helped reintroduce me back into comics.

Again the art is fantastic, even as the CGI-enthused coloring stunts Mike Deodato's fine pencils with too much excess realism. A lot of the imagery will remind readers of the picturesque yet stilted quality of past titles like Cable and Incredible Hulk. However, Deodato brings the A-game that we'll all be able to enjoy on the soon-to-come Secret Avengers.

As far as the script, all the Dark Avengers' present situations are addressed this side of &$%@!--who has a book of his own out there (read Siege #4 first, then come see me). Among the most intriguing bits are those including Captain Rogers' interrogation of Ms. Hand and Daken's not surprising fugitive status (considering he's currently "helping" his dad in his own title right now, this is no spoiler). I have to admit I'm surprised at one major character's fate throughout all of this; his decline is dutifully painted toward issue's end.

In all, Dark Avengers accomplished what it set out to do: emulate Avengers characters as they see fit, and explore further character development to such said figures (Venom, Moonstone, Hawkeye, etc.). Considering tie-in books have always been looked at with the utmost disdain--Bendis should feel proud in how most of these turned out--for Siege is a mere, fragmented status-changer without them.

4/5 Bags&Boards - Excellent finish.

http://www.comicsbulletin.com

124Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Fri May 14, 2010 12:05 am

Batman25JM

Batman25JM
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Dark Avengers #16

I loved this. It was definitely my favorite of the Siege/Avengers finale books this week.

The art was fantastic as per usual.

I loved the Steve Rogers stuff. I can't wait for Secret Avengers. Oh, and I'm thrilled that Victoria Hand is going to be around (though I figured she'd get a pass since she wasn't really doing anything wrong).

The Thor/Phobos stuff was great as well.

The letter was a nice touch.

125Dark Avengers - Page 5 Empty Re: Dark Avengers Thu May 20, 2010 7:42 am

Aussiemandias

Aussiemandias
Zombie Ninja
Zombie Ninja

Bigtymin504 wrote:Dark Avengers #16

And with that, Norman Osborn's Dark Reign is officially over. We saw the fates of each Dark Avenger in this. Venom seemed to accept arrest but Moonstone and Bullseye didn't go down that easy. And of course that crafty Daken was able to find his way out. The art was good as usual, but the different coloring style we saw last issue didn't quite work at times. The Sentry wasn't addressed in this though, which was weird. But I think the other books this week addressed a lot to do with him. The Biblical allusions in the beginning make sense now with the "Angel of Death" claim by Norman. huh

There were a few things I really loved about this issue. Thor's talk with Phobos was great, I hope he takes Thor up on that offer to meet his "Olypmus kin". And I really loved what Bendis did with the fate of Victoria Hand. She's an awesome character that has really grown throughout this series. I'm glad that Steve saw some potential in her and hopefully we'll see her play a role in the Avengers books going forward. Also, the end with Norman was just perfect if you ask me. He's locked up in his cell explaining why he did what he thought was right, to none other than himself, the Green Goblin. You almost feel sorry for the guy cuz he'll be locked in cell with himself.

The letter by Bendis at the end was a nice touch too. I like that he gave a ton of credit to Warren Ellis for setting the table for this book. It was a great series overall and I'll definitely miss it.
You summed it up well enough for me. I was glad to see Victoria Hand sticking around. She's a good character and proved to be pretty clever in her time with Norman.

I was so glad to see Bendis give that credit to Warren Ellis. I've been saying on this very message board how much Dark Avengers owes to Ellis's Thunderbolts so it was good to see that recognised.

Great end to a fun series. Oh and I'm glad at least one of them escaped.

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