Is Peyton the best ever?

After last nights amazing comeback I have to say I am a believer. Manning runs everything in the Colts offense and wins no matter who is running or catching the ball. He will wind up with every offensive record thats attainable to a QB and just never stops. He has a lot of miles left and will most likely win at least another Super Bowl (this year looks as good as any).

I am from Indiana so Peyton is royalty but still its getting harder and harder to argue that hes not the greatest : )

Brady and the Patriots had a lot more weapons than Manning and also forever have a black eye for cheating during their glory years so dont even mention Tom "Im a male model even though Im going bald" Brady in the mix.

I have been a Colts fan ever since the Oilers left Texas. I choose them because they were one of the worst teams in the NFL and in the same division as the traitors. I think it was the same year they drafted Marshal Fulk. I figured at least I couldn't be disapointed when they lost.

I complained when they picked Manning in the 1st instead of Leaf, I complained when they took EJ over Ricky Williams. I stopped complaining real fast. I have full faith in their system and question nothing. I have been nothing but impressed with them over the last 15 years. There are only 3 players on that team that were not drafted or originally signed as Colts. That says something.

I honestly do think that Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time. He is basically the Barry Sanders of the position. If you check stats he is also one of the least sacked QB's that has been active this decade, so a lot of credit should go to the O-line too. But Manning is a General directing his troops out there and it is just amazing to watch what he does.

I missed out on watching Barry play, but I know that I'm watching a legend now wearing the number 18.

Peyton is definitely one of the best ever and I respect the hell out of him, but certainly not THE best ever. He's got to prove a lot more before you can say that, he's probably not even the best in this decade since Brady has a accomplished a lot more. But the main reason Manning isn't even close to THE best ever yet is because of his 7-8 playoff record and somewhat poor performances in the playoffs.

BTW that game last night was crazy! I can't believe Belichick went for it, Pats dominated the whole game then he went and handed Colts the win!

He's as close to the best quarterback of all time as anyone can be.

Off_White_Lantern wrote:After last nights amazing comeback I have to say I am a believer. Manning runs everything in the Colts offense and wins no matter who is running or catching the ball. He will wind up with every offensive record thats attainable to a QB and just never stops. He has a lot of miles left and will most likely win at least another Super Bowl (this year looks as good as any).

I am from Indiana so Peyton is royalty but still its getting harder and harder to argue that hes not the greatest : )

Brady and the Patriots had a lot more weapons than Manning and also forever have a black eye for cheating during their glory years so dont even mention Tom "Im a male model even though Im going bald" Brady in the mix.

These arguments are always tough. If you go by the stats it's still Marino but Manning should pass him soon if he stays healthy. I've never seen Unitas, Bradshaw Tittle, or Tarkenton play so it's hard to compare. If you go by winning and Super Bowls, then Bradshaw, Montana and Brady are better.

You do have some holes in your argument for Payton. He has always had a #1 receiver. Be it Harrison or Wayne. When Brady and the Pats where winning their Super Bowls he didn't have all the weapons he has now. He hasn't won a SB with Moss and this current bunch. He won with David Patton, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn. All serviceable WR's but I wouldn't call them "weapons".

I can't say the Payton is above and beyond the best ever, but just to be in the argument is an accomplishment onto itself.

Rath99 wrote:

Off_White_Lantern wrote:After last nights amazing comeback I have to say I am a believer. Manning runs everything in the Colts offense and wins no matter who is running or catching the ball. He will wind up with every offensive record thats attainable to a QB and just never stops. He has a lot of miles left and will most likely win at least another Super Bowl (this year looks as good as any).

I am from Indiana so Peyton is royalty but still its getting harder and harder to argue that hes not the greatest : )

Brady and the Patriots had a lot more weapons than Manning and also forever have a black eye for cheating during their glory years so dont even mention Tom "Im a male model even though Im going bald" Brady in the mix.

These arguments are always tough. If you go by the stats it's still Marino but Manning should pass him soon if he stays healthy. I've never seen Unitas, Bradshaw Tittle, or Tarkenton play so it's hard to compare. If you go by winning and Super Bowls, then Bradshaw, Montana and Brady are better.

You do have some holes in your argument for Payton. He has always had a #1 receiver. Be it Harrison or Wayne. When Brady and the Pats where winning their Super Bowls he didn't have all the weapons he has now. He hasn't won a SB with Moss and this current bunch. He won with David Patton, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn. All serviceable WR's but I wouldn't call them "weapons".

I can't say the Payton is above and beyond the best ever, but just to be in the argument is an accomplishment onto itself.

Troy Aikman would be on there too if were going by SB wins. ALthough Kurt Warner could very easily have 3 SB wins and is very far from the greats.

Peyton had Harrison and now has Wayne but fits the rookies in and makes every player look the same. Had Stokley now has Dallas Clark. Had Faulk then Edge then Addai now transitioning Brown. The other Colts dont even seem to matter by this point because they almost all look good.

Who knows the only thing I can think of that will stop Manning as the best would be an injury but so far hes hit less than anyone in the NFL. Going by stats anyway he will be the best ever.

Bigtymin504 wrote:Peyton is definitely one of the best ever and I respect the hell out of him, but certainly not THE best ever. He's got to prove a lot more before you can say that, he's probably not even the best in this decade since Brady has a accomplished a lot more. But the main reason Manning isn't even close to THE best ever yet is because of his 7-8 playoff record and somewhat poor performances in the playoffs.

BTW that game last night was crazy! I can't believe Belichick went for it, Pats dominated the whole game then he went and handed Colts the win!

The Colts still had two minutes to run down the field even with a punt. It took them a minute and a half to run down a touchdown on their previous drive so I know what Belichick was thinking. The playoffs are the only thing Indy is thinking about now. I really hope they make a try at an undefeated season and dont Play Sorgi and the backups for the last few games like they did before.

Off_White_Lantern wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:Peyton is definitely one of the best ever and I respect the hell out of him, but certainly not THE best ever. He's got to prove a lot more before you can say that, he's probably not even the best in this decade since Brady has a accomplished a lot more. But the main reason Manning isn't even close to THE best ever yet is because of his 7-8 playoff record and somewhat poor performances in the playoffs.

BTW that game last night was crazy! I can't believe Belichick went for it, Pats dominated the whole game then he went and handed Colts the win!

The Colts still had two minutes to run down the field even with a punt. It took them a minute and a half to run down a touchdown on their previous drive so I know what Belichick was thinking. The playoffs are the only thing Indy is thinking about now. I really hope they make a try at an undefeated season and dont Play Sorgi and the backups for the last few games like they did before.

You still make them go the longer distance. You don't give it to them at there 30 yard line.

Yeah, I'm confused to what Off White Lanterns argument is. 2 minutes to go 70 yards, or two minutes to go thirty? lol.

Do you think Manning would be among the greats if he played for a bad team like Cleveland?

Well i heard this on the Brock (Brock Huward former Patriot) and Saulk show on ESPN radio in the car on my way back from class and I thought it was interesting.

Mike Saulk argued this point. Do you trust the defense that is somewhat questionable. This isn't the old defense with Ty Law and Lawyer Maloy, nobody knows who even plays defense for the Patriots anymore, or do you trust, Randy Moss, Tom Brady, Wes Welker, and Kevin Faulk. Belichik was just trying to keep the ball out of Manning's hands regardless, punting still gives them about the same percentage chance of scoring as the chance that pass would have gotten the first down. He played the odds.

Brock of coarse was the counter point and says you kick it away and hope for the best. lol

If you think of it that way football is a crazy game and a lot of things can happen, 4th and 2 you run the play and you either convert or you don't, manning might get the ball and you press him.

Punt, manning almost definately gets the ball, probably at about the 50 and two plays later is up at the goal line anyway. I think he made a sound choice and it was just a bobble away from working. I still wouldn't have done it, but I can definately see the logic.

On the Manning note.

Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison a Hall of Famer, he will put Wayne in the Hall as well as almost anybody else that plays with him. He is probably the smartest guy in the NFL, he uses his tools and gets the job done. This is why he was the main factor in NE's decision last night. Could you even imagine if he had Warner's recievers?

[quote="Off_White_Lantern]

Troy Aikman would be on there too if were going by SB wins. ALthough Kurt Warner could very easily have 3 SB wins and is very far from the greats.

Peyton had Harrison and now has Wayne but fits the rookies in and makes every player look the same. Had Stokley now has Dallas Clark. Had Faulk then Edge then Addai now transitioning Brown. The other Colts dont even seem to matter by this point because they almost all look good.

Who knows the only thing I can think of that will stop Manning as the best would be an injury but so far hes hit less than anyone in the NFL. Going by stats anyway he will be the best ever.[/quote]

Aikman always had a team around him and a great O-line (Peyton at least has the O-line to protect him.) But Aikman will have the record for highest concussion to superbowl ring ration. Seriously, I won't be surprised if he is all punch drunk, Mohamad Ali style in the next 10 years.

Warner had a team. Always has had a team when he does good. Seriously with the recieving core that Arizona has I could QB for them and win. If I chucked the ball backwards into the crowd, Breaston, Boudin, or Fitzgerald would come down in-bounds for a first down or a TD. Those guys are just mutants. Jeff George could throw the ball just as well as Warner, George never had the team.

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:Well i heard this on the Brock (Brock Huward former Patriot) and Saulk show on ESPN radio in the car on my way back from class and I thought it was interesting.

Mike Saulk argued this point. Do you trust the defense that is somewhat questionable. This isn't the old defense with Ty Law and Lawyer Maloy, nobody knows who even plays defense for the Patriots anymore, or do you trust, Randy Moss, Tom Brady, Wes Welker, and Kevin Faulk. Belichik was just trying to keep the ball out of Manning's hands regardless, punting still gives them about the same percentage chance of scoring as the chance that pass would have gotten the first down. He played the odds.

Brock of coarse was the counter point and says you kick it away and hope for the best. lol



If you think of it that way football is a crazy game and a lot of things can happen, 4th and 2 you run the play and you either convert or you don't, manning might get the ball and you press him.

Punt, manning almost definately gets the ball, probably at about the 50 and two plays later is up at the goal line anyway. I think he made a sound choice and it was just a bobble away from working. I still wouldn't have done it, but I can definately see the logic.

On the Manning note.

Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison a Hall of Famer, he will put Wayne in the Hall as well as almost anybody else that plays with him. He is probably the smartest guy in the NFL, he uses his tools and gets the job done. This is why he was the main factor in NE's decision last night. Could you even imagine if he had Warner's recievers?

If they punt they would have been around their 20-35 yard line (punters can punt 50 yards). Making the Colts go 60-70. That is much better than giving him 30 yards to go.It was a BAD move. You have to take into account what happens if you don't make it.

So Harrison and Wayne are crap without Manning? You can make the argument that every WR is a product of a good QB. I agree that he might be the smartest QB in the league but let's not take anything away from the talent he has had around him.

Harrison was a phenom in his time, but wayne did something that rarely happens on a team. And that is move from #2 to #1. Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Westbrook, Terrell Owens, they were all part of that draft class and all just incredible, but Harrison is the one that ended up with a well oiled supercomputer machine behind center.

Yes.

Thundermatts wrote:Yeah, I'm confused to what Off White Lanterns argument is. 2 minutes to go 70 yards, or two minutes to go thirty? lol.

Confused about what? I said the Colts would have had a great chance to win even if the Pats punted and Bellichick knew it so he went for it. It took the Colts 1.5 minutes to score the last one and Manning is obviously great at finishing games.

Too much was made of that call.

Rath99 wrote:

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:Well i heard this on the Brock (Brock Huward former Patriot) and Saulk show on ESPN radio in the car on my way back from class and I thought it was interesting.

Mike Saulk argued this point. Do you trust the defense that is somewhat questionable. This isn't the old defense with Ty Law and Lawyer Maloy, nobody knows who even plays defense for the Patriots anymore, or do you trust, Randy Moss, Tom Brady, Wes Welker, and Kevin Faulk. Belichik was just trying to keep the ball out of Manning's hands regardless, punting still gives them about the same percentage chance of scoring as the chance that pass would have gotten the first down. He played the odds.

Brock of coarse was the counter point and says you kick it away and hope for the best. lol



If you think of it that way football is a crazy game and a lot of things can happen, 4th and 2 you run the play and you either convert or you don't, manning might get the ball and you press him.

Punt, manning almost definately gets the ball, probably at about the 50 and two plays later is up at the goal line anyway. I think he made a sound choice and it was just a bobble away from working. I still wouldn't have done it, but I can definately see the logic.

On the Manning note.

Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison a Hall of Famer, he will put Wayne in the Hall as well as almost anybody else that plays with him. He is probably the smartest guy in the NFL, he uses his tools and gets the job done. This is why he was the main factor in NE's decision last night. Could you even imagine if he had Warner's recievers?

If they punt they would have been around their 20-35 yard line (punters can punt 50 yards). Making the Colts go 60-70. That is much better than giving him 30 yards to go.It was a BAD move. You have to take into account what happens if you don't make it.

So Harrison and Wayne are crap without Manning? You can make the argument that every WR is a product of a good QB. I agree that he might be the smartest QB in the league but let's not take anything away from the talent he has had around him.

Didnt say any of the Colts players were crap but it is becoming apparent that just about every reciever and running back has been interchangeable during the Manning era.

The punter is ten yards back from scrimmage on the kick and your not considering a runback which would be certain on a full out punt. Would have been closer to the Forty or midfield. Should have definately punted but with the way things were going it probably wouldnt have mattered.

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:Well i heard this on the Brock (Brock Huward former Patriot) and Saulk show on ESPN radio in the car on my way back from class and I thought it was interesting.

Mike Saulk argued this point. Do you trust the defense that is somewhat questionable. This isn't the old defense with Ty Law and Lawyer Maloy, nobody knows who even plays defense for the Patriots anymore, or do you trust, Randy Moss, Tom Brady, Wes Welker, and Kevin Faulk. Belichik was just trying to keep the ball out of Manning's hands regardless, punting still gives them about the same percentage chance of scoring as the chance that pass would have gotten the first down. He played the odds.

Brock of coarse was the counter point and says you kick it away and hope for the best. lol

If you think of it that way football is a crazy game and a lot of things can happen, 4th and 2 you run the play and you either convert or you don't, manning might get the ball and you press him.

Punt, manning almost definately gets the ball, probably at about the 50 and two plays later is up at the goal line anyway. I think he made a sound choice and it was just a bobble away from working. I still wouldn't have done it, but I can definately see the logic.

On the Manning note.

Peyton Manning made Marvin Harrison a Hall of Famer, he will put Wayne in the Hall as well as almost anybody else that plays with him. He is probably the smartest guy in the NFL, he uses his tools and gets the job done. This is why he was the main factor in NE's decision last night. Could you even imagine if he had Warner's recievers?

^^^ I agree with everything posted.

A lot has been made of this call. I still believe you punt. I would much rather take my chances with the Colts on THEIR 30 yard line then on MY 30 yard line.

Off_White_Lantern wrote:He will wind up with every offensive record thats attainable to a QB and just never stops.
I am from Indiana so Peyton is royalty but still its getting harder and harder to argue that hes not the greatest : )

Brady and the Patriots had a lot more weapons than Manning and also forever have a black eye for cheating during their glory years so dont even mention Tom "Im a male model even though Im going bald" Brady in the mix.

He'll beat Brady's highest total passing touchdowns in a regular season?

Is your argument against Tom Brady that he's handsome?

Heytherejeffro wrote:

Off_White_Lantern wrote:He will wind up with every offensive record thats attainable to a QB and just never stops.
I am from Indiana so Peyton is royalty but still its getting harder and harder to argue that hes not the greatest : )

Brady and the Patriots had a lot more weapons than Manning and also forever have a black eye for cheating during their glory years so dont even mention Tom "Im a male model even though Im going bald" Brady in the mix.

He'll beat Brady's highest total passing touchdowns in a regular season?

Is your argument against Tom Brady that he's handsome?

Huh?

The post was about Manning being the best. Since Favre, Manning and Brady are normally considered the best currently I added that. Brady has been on the cover of every fashion magazine which was shown during the Colts/Pats game and made me laugh my ass off. Just stated up front that I dont think Brady is in the discussion because of a lot of things but the cheating pretty much ends it.

If you don't think Brady is one of the best quarterbacks around, I'm not sure what sport you're watching. I don't give two shits about the Pats, but man that guy is good.

Thundermatts wrote:If you don't think Brady is one of the best quarterbacks around, I'm not sure what sport you're watching. I don't give two shits about the Pats, but man that guy is good.

Agreed. Not a Pats fan but you can't argue with 50 TD's in a season.

Rath99 wrote:

Thundermatts wrote:If you don't think Brady is one of the best quarterbacks around, I'm not sure what sport you're watching. I don't give two shits about the Pats, but man that guy is good.

Agreed. Not a Pats fan but you can't argue with 50 TD's in a season.

Yeah but u cant argue that Spygate tarnished the Patriots and Brady. Im sure they would have been good and Brady is a great QB but they got caught and did it to themselves.

Thundermatts wrote:If you don't think Brady is one of the best quarterbacks around, I'm not sure what sport you're watching. I don't give two shits about the Pats, but man that guy is good.

lol said he was great but really blew it getting caught cheating. Sorry but they really tarnished their run by doing that.