Is Peyton the best ever?

Off_White_Lantern wrote:

Thundermatts wrote:If you don't think Brady is one of the best quarterbacks around, I'm not sure what sport you're watching. I don't give two shits about the Pats, but man that guy is good.

lol said he was great but really blew it getting caught cheating. Sorry but they really tarnished their run by doing that.

Because you're an Indy fan... The "soiled reputation" came from getting caught, not from the action, or else every team in the NFL's reputation was soiled.

I'm a Bostonian, and of course view A-Rod (for example) as a tool because of his involvement in steroids, but I don't view him as any more of a cheater than David Ortiz (who also got "outted")

Also, Brady has been on 14 covers of SI (1 with Peyton) as opposed to Manning's 9 (counting the shared cover). They were comparing the magazine covers for humor, because Brady's known more for being handsome than being one of the best QBs of all time, whereas Manning's not what one would call traditionally attractive.

They didn't "tarnish" jack, they were caught taping that one game of the Jets. Now, you can speculate all you want but there's no proof that they did any of that during the Superbowl runs. You can't dismiss their accomplishments based off one incident without proof that they constantly did it. And if you wanna go off speculation, then I'd say its safe to speculate that several other teams, if not all, have done the same thing because the NFL is a copycat league.

Plus, AFTER the whole Spygate nonsense, the Pats damn near had a perfect (not to mention dominant) season if it wasn't for a miraculous lucky catch in the Superbowl by the Giants. No matter what, you win or lose games on the field.

Anyone who looks at spygate as a Patriots thing has the wool pulled over their eyes. Just like with steroids and baseball, just because people didn't get caught doesn't mean a lot more didn't do it. Many people have come out since then to say that type of thing was done by every team.

Oh and Brady threw most of his 50 TD's AFTER spygate.

Brady belongs in any conversation when you are talking about the best QB's

It's been proven that not EVERY team tapes the play calls from across the field. Every team runs tape of course, but they specifically got busted for using the tape to illegally figure out hand signals. Though a good number of teams did. And even with The Pats getting caught, how is that a strike against Brady? He wasn't running the camera, nor did he have a say in the matter.

Heytherejeffro wrote:

Off_White_Lantern wrote:

Thundermatts wrote:If you don't think Brady is one of the best quarterbacks around, I'm not sure what sport you're watching. I don't give two shits about the Pats, but man that guy is good.

lol said he was great but really blew it getting caught cheating. Sorry but they really tarnished their run by doing that.

Because you're an Indy fan... The "soiled reputation" came from getting caught, not from the action, or else every team in the NFL's reputation was soiled.

I'm a Bostonian, and of course view A-Rod (for example) as a tool because of his involvement in steroids, but I don't view him as any more of a cheater than David Ortiz (who also got "outted")

Also, Brady has been on 14 covers of SI (1 with Peyton) as opposed to Manning's 9 (counting the shared cover). They were comparing the magazine covers for humor, because Brady's known more for being handsome than being one of the best QBs of all time, whereas Manning's not what one would call traditionally attractive.

Yeah baseball pretty much died in the 80's and all the steriod players (u know the good ones) are jokes.

lol Peyton is a goofy looking guy but Brady does think hes a male model. Just makes me laugh especially when Brady leans over and u can see his scalp getting clearer and clearer.

The Pats got busted cheating. No excuses and as far as I know they were the only ones doing it. Even if your a fan they did it and got caught. Kinda dumb to risk even having people bring it up but they did it.

Even if Brady and the Pats had no knowledge of the cheating going on (yeah right) it still happened.

I live right by Indiana and trust me Spygate will never be forgotten here. 3 rings and great seasons while knowing if the offense was running or passing the ball. Hmmm sounds like a killer advantage to me.

Off_White_Lantern wrote:
Yeah baseball pretty much died in the 80's and all the steriod players (u know the good ones) are jokes.
lol Peyton is a goofy looking guy but Brady does think hes a male model. Just makes me laugh especially when Brady leans over and u can see his scalp getting clearer and clearer.

Brady actually is a male model. That's what they call you when you're handsome and companies hire you to look good while endorsing their product. (Bonus points for also porking the highest paid "professional" model in the world)
I'm not sure I'm fully seeing where Brady lacks any character here. DO you really think his ability dimnishes in any way because his coaches were doing things and calling plays that he wasn't overseeing? Did he not have a near-perfect, record shattering season AFTER "Spygate"?

My thing is I wouldn't have the balls to declare either of the 2 as the greatest of all time, because neither have finished up their careers. I'd back Favre as being more valuable a QB to a team because of what he can do with what he has had. When you can win a Superbowl with Mark Chmura as your #2 guy, come see me.

yeah I'm a Colt's fan, but I also am a realist. If I was puting together an All-Madden-All-Time Football Team, Peyton Manning would be my QB. Brady does have good numbers, my favorite match-up of the year to watch is always a Colts-Patriots game. I have no doubt in my mind that if Manning stays healthy, continues to keep his jersy from getting grass on it, and plays as long as Farve (minus retiring 7 times of coarse) That he will have just about eery record a QB can get. Nobody does what he does on the field, and that is have total command and control of the game when he is out there. How many other quarter backs can score three times in under 5 minutes of possestion in the 4th quarter? The no huddle that he runs and the clear intelligence that he displays on the field will continue to make him great. Even if you want to put rings up as a measure, Peyton Manning is inarguably the smartest QB to ever play the game. Longevity is the key to QB records in the NFL. Will he break Brady's TD per season record, probably not, but that doesn't make him any less great. Beleive me he has 10 or more seasons that he will try. However the colts as a whole I see playing Sorgi more or someone else off the bench if they clinch homefield, they play smart as an organization as well, I don't think they care about a perfect season.

I without a doubt believe that there were other quarterbacks that defined an era, but Peyton Manning defines the position.

Lol just because you live with blinders on and refuse to see that more than the Pats cheated like that, doesn't mean they didn't. It wasn;t as wide spread as some here would lead you to believe, but I believe the Raiders were another case.

I don't even talk about the whole "spygate" thing, I didn't even know it had a name. If you don't think every team has somebody trying to figure out the plays being called from accross the field somehow then you are delusional. I didn't even see the problem with what the Pats did really, only that it was against the rules. That doesn't take away from Tom Brady's performance by any means though.

Off_White_Lantern wrote:lol Peyton is a goofy looking guy but Brady does think hes a male model. Just makes me laugh especially when Brady leans over and u can see his scalp getting clearer and clearer.

I don't understand your fascination with Tom Brady's hair and whether its thinning or not...especially considering yo' boy Peyton has had a receding hairline for some time now. And so what, who cares!

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Off_White_Lantern wrote:lol Peyton is a goofy looking guy but Brady does think hes a male model. Just makes me laugh especially when Brady leans over and u can see his scalp getting clearer and clearer.

I don't understand your fascination with Tom Brady's hair and whether its thinning or not...especially considering yo' boy Peyton has had a receding hairline for some time now. And so what, who cares!

lol Peyton is a football player not a pretty boy.

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:I don't even talk about the whole "spygate" thing, I didn't even know it had a name. If you don't think every team has somebody trying to figure out the plays being called from accross the field somehow then you are delusional. I didn't even see the problem with what the Pats did really, only that it was against the rules. That doesn't take away from Tom Brady's performance by any means though.

Apparently it was a big deal since they got caught during a game doing it and Belichick got a half million dollar fine (largest in NFL history for a coach). The Pats an additional $250,000 and loss of picks in 08. Goodell also got the tapes and quickly destroyed them to take some of the heat off the NFL since some of the tapes were from the Rams Pats Superbowl.

Why try to say it wasnt a big deal or that it "really wasnt cheating"?

I dont like the Pats at all but would say the exact same thing if Peyton and Dungy had sunk to cheating to win their Superbowl.

With QBs like Montana, Marino, Favre, Elway, Johnny Unitas, and Terry Bradshaw just to name a few, I think we will have to see how either Brady or Manning's careers end up to see if they are GOAT.


Manning just doesn't win enough big games to me to be in the conversation. He's won one conference championship, and one Superbowl. Hell he might not even be the best Colts QB ever.

Brady on the other hand, no matter what anybody says, wins. There is nothing anybody can say to take away from that fact.

I don't see either of them as GOAT, but I would take Brady to start an offense around before Manning.

Off_White_Lantern wrote:

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:I don't even talk about the whole "spygate" thing, I didn't even know it had a name. If you don't think every team has somebody trying to figure out the plays being called from accross the field somehow then you are delusional. I didn't even see the problem with what the Pats did really, only that it was against the rules. That doesn't take away from Tom Brady's performance by any means though.

Apparently it was a big deal since they got caught during a game doing it and Belichick got a half million dollar fine (largest in NFL history for a coach). The Pats an additional $250,000 and loss of picks in 08. Goodell also got the tapes and quickly destroyed them to take some of the heat off the NFL since some of the tapes were from the Rams Pats Superbowl.

Why try to say it wasnt a big deal or that it "really wasnt cheating"?

I dont like the Pats at all but would say the exact same thing if Peyton and Dungy had sunk to cheating to win their Superbowl.

Both Commissioner Godell and Sen. Spectre watched the "suppossed" taping of the Rams and they both deemed it to be a farce. You can blame the Rams losing the game on their dumbass coach Mike Martz. This idiot still wanted to try and throw the ball when New England put 6, 7, or 8 defensive backs on the field. That's what lost them the game. When they ran the ball with Marshall Faulk or sent him out to the flats for a pass, they were very successful against the Pats. But they tried that to late in the game. It really doesn't matter if they knew what the defense was doing, because the NE recievers still had to catch the ball and the NE running backs still had to find holes and break the tackles. Just because you know what the defense is doing, doesn't mean it is a guaranteed win.

Ric Magnum wrote:

Off_White_Lantern wrote:

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:I don't even talk about the whole "spygate" thing, I didn't even know it had a name. If you don't think every team has somebody trying to figure out the plays being called from accross the field somehow then you are delusional. I didn't even see the problem with what the Pats did really, only that it was against the rules. That doesn't take away from Tom Brady's performance by any means though.

Apparently it was a big deal since they got caught during a game doing it and Belichick got a half million dollar fine (largest in NFL history for a coach). The Pats an additional $250,000 and loss of picks in 08. Goodell also got the tapes and quickly destroyed them to take some of the heat off the NFL since some of the tapes were from the Rams Pats Superbowl.

Why try to say it wasnt a big deal or that it "really wasnt cheating"?

I dont like the Pats at all but would say the exact same thing if Peyton and Dungy had sunk to cheating to win their Superbowl.

Both Commissioner Godell and Sen. Spectre watched the "suppossed" taping of the Rams and they both deemed it to be a farce. You can blame the Rams losing the game on their dumbass coach Mike Martz. This idiot still wanted to try and throw the ball when New England put 6, 7, or 8 defensive backs on the field. That's what lost them the game. When they ran the ball with Marshall Faulk or sent him out to the flats for a pass, they were very successful against the Pats. But they tried that to late in the game. It really doesn't matter if they knew what the defense was doing, because the NE recievers still had to catch the ball and the NE running backs still had to find holes and break the tackles. Just because you know what the defense is doing, doesn't mean it is a guaranteed win.

Very good!

Thundermatts wrote:He's as close to the best quarterback of all time as anyone can be.

I would agree with that.

Here is an interesting comparison. This site will compare careers and tell you what players are similar by career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

Career wise, he is compared to people that we talk about all the time when it comes to great QB's.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

And Mr. Brady is compared to Trent Greene, Matt Hasselback, and Dante Culpepper. I think this shows how Brady is just a blip in the big world of the NFL when you compare him to Peyton Manning.

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:Here is an interesting comparison. This site will compare careers and tell you what players are similar by career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

Career wise, he is compared to people that we talk about all the time when it comes to great QB's.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

And Mr. Brady is compared to Trent Greene, Matt Hasselback, and Dante Culpepper. I think this shows how Brady is just a blip in the big world of the NFL when you compare him to Peyton Manning.

If anyone actually believes Brady is comparable to those quarterbacks you listed, then they truly know nothing about football. There's a hell of a lot more to being a great quarterback than just pure stats, especially pure regular season stats. This silly little website doesn't even take playoffs and Superbowls into account. Now compare Manning's and Brady's postseason stats, records, and accomplishments and you will get quite a different result. Basically, that thing is nonsense and doesn't give you an accurate analysis of how great a quarterback has been and what he's accomplished. These two guys are basically neck and neck in terms of overall greatness.

"Explanation of the similarity scores
At baseball-reference.com you'll find, for each player in baseball history, a list of players similar to that player. These lists are generated by a method introduced by Bill James in the 1980s, and his aim was to find players who were similar in quality, but also similar in style of play.
The similar players lists here at pro-football-reference are NOT the same thing.

Unfortunately, football stats just aren't descriptive enough to capture players' styles. So we have settled for a method that attempts to find players whose careers were similar in terms of quality and shape. By shape, we mean things like: how many years did he play? how good were his best years, compared to his worst years? did he have a few great years and then several mediocre years, or did he have many good-but-not-great years?

Essentially, if you run across a player you've never heard of before, and if the list of similar players has some names you recognize, this gives you a quick way to (very roughly) figure out where the guy fits in history.
"
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/glossary.htm#sim

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=556

This web site is taking into acount careers, play style as well as stats, which it explains in detail.

Like I said, if you actually believe Brady is comparable to those guys you listed, then you don't know much about football. And again, they don't take postseason and Superbowls into account, Manning compares horribly against Brady when it comes to postseason. Also, on that website Brady is compared to guys like Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, John Elway, etc as well so don't just cherry pick the scrubs to make him look bad.

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:Here is an interesting comparison. This site will compare careers and tell you what players are similar by career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

Career wise, he is compared to people that we talk about all the time when it comes to great QB's.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

And Mr. Brady is compared to Trent Greene, Matt Hasselback, and Dante Culpepper. I think this shows how Brady is just a blip in the big world of the NFL when you compare him to Peyton Manning.

LOL are you seriously saying that Tom Brady's career is comparable to the career’s of Trent Greene, Matt Hassleback, and Dante Culpepper? All three have been to a combined 1 Super Bowl without a win. Brady, 4 Super Bowls, 3 wins. I understand that Peyton is your guy and no one will argue how great he is. You've made some very good arguments to support him being considered as one of the best ever...BUT to say that Brady's is just a blip is one of the most insane arguments I've ever heard and wreaks of biasness on your part.

Matt Cassle getting 10 wins with that team just shows that Brady had a team, this year the team isn't as good as it was as a whole, but anybody could QB that recieving corpse to 10 wins maybe more.

Could Sorgi win 10 or more games for Indi? God no, Manning gets hurt the Colts are 4-12 at best.

The website breaks them down by time in their career. If you notice there is a point where manning shows up on that list with brady, but then all the sudden boom Manning screamed ahead.

Playoff record doesn't rest solely on the QB either. Last year against the chargers it was clearly the Colts D that choked on Chargers cock, giving up big plays to the back up QB and RB.

Brady doesn't have the D he did last year to support his team, or even the year before. They will definately take Defensive players this off-season.

Before Brady got hurt no one would have guessed that Cassle and the pats would win 10 games.Before Bledsoe got hurt no one thought that Brady and the Pats would win 10 games.

You keep mentioning Brady's weapons but he hasn't won a Super Bowl with this bunch. Football is more of a team sport than any other sport. Elway didn't win until he had a running game. A QB doesn't do it on his own. If it was all on the QB Marino would have mutiple Super Bowl rings.

Again, I'm not saying Brady is better. What I am saying is that he's in the disscusion as much as Peyton is.

Then you would have to take the guys who had comparable careers and mention all of them as well. Like Boomer Esiesen(sp)