Why should anyone care about her? Sure she was one of the first Avengers, but aside from that, what's so special about her? I don't get it. Enlighten me someone.

You probably don't need to but the way I see things is that every character has the potential to be someone's favorite character. It's the only reason why I don't just outright diss a character. The worst I'll ever say about any character is that the character just isn't interesting to me. The Wasp doesn't do it for me one way or the other but I am sure someone likes her and I rather Janet be the Wasp than Hank. Having seen him in his Wasp costume, I have to say that I am missing Janet just a little bit more.

New Hank is twice as interesting as Janet and Hank were combined before all of this happened.

Heytherejeffro wrote:New Hank is twice as interesting as Janet and Hank were combined before all of this happened.

I don't know why but I find Hank Pym as the Wasp kind of creepy. I know he's been Ant Man and Yellow Jacket so this kind of identity isn't new to him but I still find it creepy. On another topic, does Hank hold the record for having the most identities?

^ Yes, I think he is.

It's very sad (not because I'm a fan of Janet or anything) that her greatest story - IMHO - was in that post-SI one-shot where Hank remembers his recently fallen wife.

This article I wrote last year is about Jan as much as it is about Hank: http://panelsonpages.com/?p=11059

Almost forgot my points about her (abusing Hank's fragile mind etc.), but they're pretty good, if my subjective opinion is to be trusted.

I guess you really don't need to care about her much anyway, Wade, seeing she's currently dead in both the main (not definite though) and Ultimate (pretty damn dead) universes.

She designs costumes Wade!

No but seriously, she's a pretty important character to the history of the Avengers, and obviously Hank Pym. Its not like she has a rabid fan base or anything, but you could say the same thing about several characters. And like jaydee said, one man's trash is another man's treasure. There are dozens of characters I don't particularly "get" either but doesn't mean they're pointless.

Plus, any chick you can do this with...



is a keeper.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Plus, any chick you can do this with...



is a keeper.

In all seriousness, Janet seemed to be the character that was probably the most liked by all. She seemed to be the character that if you had a problem you get sit down and talk to. She seemed to be a really optimistic and lovable character, one of those people you couldn't hate. I may be wrong, but that's how I saw here. Sadly, this wasn't properly put in the comic, making her a character who sometimes didn't seem that important. She was the first person that I thought would be killed off during Secret Invasion.

Foreigner_Man wrote:
In all seriousness, Janet seemed to be the character that was probably the most liked by all. She seemed to be the character that if you had a problem you get sit down and talk to. She seemed to be a really optimistic and lovable character, one of those people you couldn't hate. I may be wrong, but that's how I saw here. Sadly, this wasn't properly put in the comic, making her a character who sometimes didn't seem that important. She was the first person that I thought would be killed off during Secret Invasion.

This is the reason I couldn't think of. I don't love her character, but I liked the idea of her. Like J'onn. Never really noticed them until they were taken away.

I still think her death wasn't very cool of the writers. I'm thinking that she may be back, though. Kind of given, but what I mean is upcoming pretty soon. Can't remember the name of the title, but I think that it may involve Binary coming to Earth and causing havok, while an unofficial team, not The Lady Liberators or Marvel Divas, consisting of She-Hulk and Photon and some others that I can't think of.

Oh, it's called Herald or something. And it may be Nova, not...IDK. Saw it on Fresh Ink.

BlueMaxx wrote:
I still think her death wasn't very cool of the writers.

Not cool at all. In fact I thought it was weak. In the mainstream Marvel Universe her death just seemed like a "well, we have to kill someone" moment. Deaths like that always seem like pretty weak writing to me.

Her death in Ultimatum was even worse in my opinion. It was pointless (like just about every death in that series) and just done because the writer could do it. I actually thought the Janet van Dyne character in the Ultimate Universe was actually a pretty interesting character.

BlueMaxx wrote:Oh, it's called Herald or something. And it may be Nova, not...IDK. Saw it on Fresh Ink.

Heralds.

What Loeb did in Ultimatum, I think, was to show war and death in a more realistic way, in that, amidst carnage and chaos, attrition isn't always reflected upon deeply until afterwards (a requiem, if you will). It's more like action and reaction. Honestly, I hated Ultimatum, but I definitely see where he was going with that.

As far as the Secret Invasion situation, it tied in pretty well. Janet was made an interesting character for a moment, and sometimes it takes losing a character (or, you know, a person...) to realize just how important he/she/it was. Her death was the motivation for the new (and I'm going to say "better") Mighty Avengers. Her death was a catalyst for Hank getting his head out of his ass. I'm not going to classify her as a "refrigerator" girl, either. She wasn't some secondary or tertiary character; a girlfriend, relative, or whatnot. She was a hero, and heroism means putting yourself into a situation when your nerve out-paces the potential consequences, even if that potential becomes a reality.

Ultimately, we're all going to die at one point, and it doesn't matter if we're loved, despised, or ignored. In her death, Marvel and it's creators are granted an opportunity to spring forth new life in a lot of what affects the Marvel Universe.

She was never one of my favorites, but I always kinda dug her. On a team filled with unfrozen supersoldiers, gods, and guys in battle armor, she was just a cool chick that happened to have a superpower. I actually miss her in the comics and am curious as to who will play her in the upcoming Avengers movie.

oh don't get me started about ultimatum....

It was delievered to our library alongside sixteen other gns and me being the geek I am I read it....

What a mistake that was

Heytherejeffro wrote:What Loeb did in Ultimatum, I think, was to show war and death in a more realistic way, in that, amidst carnage and chaos, attrition isn't always reflected upon deeply until afterwards (a requiem, if you will). It's more like action and reaction. Honestly, I hated Ultimatum, but I definitely see where he was going with that.

As far as the Secret Invasion situation, it tied in pretty well. Janet was made an interesting character for a moment, and sometimes it takes losing a character (or, you know, a person...) to realize just how important he/she/it was. Her death was the motivation for the new (and I'm going to say "better") Mighty Avengers. Her death was a catalyst for Hank getting his head out of his ass. I'm not going to classify her as a "refrigerator" girl, either. She wasn't some secondary or tertiary character; a girlfriend, relative, or whatnot. She was a hero, and heroism means putting yourself into a situation when your nerve out-paces the potential consequences, even if that potential becomes a reality.

Ultimately, we're all going to die at one point, and it doesn't matter if we're loved, despised, or ignored. In her death, Marvel and it's creators are granted an opportunity to spring forth new life in a lot of what affects the Marvel Universe.

Very well said. You're right, her death in Secret Invasion was the catalyst for a lot of growth and development, namely with Pym finally living up to his potential. If it weren't for her death, her and Pym would probably still have their ongoing drama and Pym would never become the Scientist Supreme lol.

I agree about her death in Ultimatum. I think it was stupid and badly handled, but I understand what Loeb was trying to do. With the Ultimate Universe, they want to maintain a tone of "anything can happen" because they just can't do that with 616. It sucked though cuz Ultimate Wasp was an awesome character, so was Ultimate Pym. Loeb definitely did not do justice to the character work Millar put into them.

Heytherejeffro wrote:What Loeb did in Ultimatum, I think, was to show war and death in a more realistic way, in that, amidst carnage and chaos, attrition isn't always reflected upon deeply until afterwards (a requiem, if you will). It's more like action and reaction. Honestly, I hated Ultimatum, but I definitely see where he was going with that.

I totally get what you're saying here however the cynical side of me believes that wasn't really the motivation. I think Loeb's motivation (just my opinion of course) with Ultimatum was basically just to show that they could do it. To show that anything could happen in the Ultimate Universe. I really don't think there was the deeper (and more intelligent) motive as you mention but a more base motive of killing characters just for the sake of it or for shock value. And, seriously, Ultimatum was all about shock value. I just can't see the deeper meaning to it.

Aussiemandias wrote:

BlueMaxx wrote:
I still think her death wasn't very cool of the writers.

Not cool at all. In fact I thought it was weak. In the mainstream Marvel Universe her death just seemed like a "well, we have to kill someone" moment. Deaths like that always seem like pretty weak writing to me.

Heytherejeffro wrote:
As far as the Secret Invasion situation, it tied in pretty well. Janet was made an interesting character for a moment, and sometimes it takes losing a character (or, you know, a person...) to realize just how important he/she/it was. Her death was the motivation for the new (and I'm going to say "better") Mighty Avengers. Her death was a catalyst for Hank getting his head out of his ass. I'm not going to classify her as a "refrigerator" girl, either. She wasn't some secondary or tertiary character; a girlfriend, relative, or whatnot. She was a hero, and heroism means putting yourself into a situation when your nerve out-paces the potential consequences, even if that potential becomes a reality.

I disagree, and think it was the epitome of WiRS. Here's a long-standing character, someone who has been a part of the "biggest" team Marvel has to offer since the beginning (she is a founder) and her death was a pathetic mess. Thor-Ragnarok/Dying glorious in battle like a Norsemen would want to achieve Valhalla, Cap-Martydom/Sacrifice, and even Hawkeye went out in a spectacular way considering his capabilities (and the fact that he's back). And was does poor Janet get? Put down like a dog by her own teammate like it is the only way. Sorry, that's not fair writing. That's like Star Trek's original series ending with all the people on board dying gloriously against Klingons or whatever the heck, and Uhura gets sold into slavery and beatin' to death by her owner. That's not reaching, she's a classic female character that deserves far more respect, and the writers just swatted her aside with their erasers. It's one thing to write a bad story, but another to completely end a character's story so egregiously.

I'm sure she'll be back, but that is still total crap. It's like, I don't care for Cyclops, but X3's dealings with that character was just ridiculous to the point of me inner-whining of the mistreatment of him.