5 DC heroes that should live outside continuity

http://www.mania.com/5-dc-heroes-should-live-outside-continuity_article_121720.html

thoughts?

They make interesting arguments but I say no.

I like some of those ideas a lot. Personally I think the concept of 'continuity' or 'canon' has done more to stifle creativity within the comic medium than any other. Some of the best comics produced in the last thirty years have been 'out of continuity'. - Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, All Star Superman, Gaiman's Sandman, Kingdom Come, Elseworlds etc.

In the case of DC or Marvel - as long as the core attributes of a character are adhered to, e.g. Bruce Wayne fights evil to avenge his parents death, Superman is sent from a doomed planet to earth and gains powers, I welcome any attempt to free the comics medium from unecessary limitations.

Jherek wrote:I like some of those ideas a lot. Personally I think the concept of 'continuity' or 'canon' has done more to stifle creativity within the comic medium than any other. Some of the best comics produced in the last thirty years have been 'out of continuity'. - Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, All Star Superman, Gaiman's Sandman, Kingdom Come, Elseworlds etc.

In the case of DC or Marvel - as long as the core attributes of a character are adhered to, e.g. Bruce Wayne fights evil to avenge his parents death, Superman is sent from a doomed planet to earth and gains powers, I welcome any attempt to free the comics medium from unecessary limitations.

I agree with you Jherek. I think some really good stories can come off a continuity free zone. It allow the writer to do really good stories without being bogged down by all the history of the character.

Thats why i liked exiles. It was continiuty free and they did lots of good stories.

supervenom wrote:http://www.mania.com/5-dc-heroes-should-live-outside-continuity_article_121720.html

thoughts?

*Draws WALL OF WORDS card to destroy the article*

The people who wrote that article don't know what they are talking about. In other words, no. They be crazy. They seem to think that the whole comic universe should have one coherent tone which is the stupidest thing I have ever heard (they deserved to be slapped for thinking that). A comic coherent universe can have characters of varying tones. Ambush Bug can exist in the same universe as Dr. Light. It doesn't make sense to say that they can't. This not a kids TV show or something. There is no reason why each of those series cannot exist as they do in one coherent universe. Unless you want to write a story where you blow up half the world each time, there is no reason to create such. Writers that can't make characters work within continuity are simply not trying hard enough. Aquaman? How hard is it to make him work? He lives underwater away from everyone. Underwater, a place where very few writers pay attention to. Why not create multiple civilizations under the waves? Why not create technologically advanced civilizations, give them star-gates, and have them create colonies on other planets? From that alone, in conjunction with societies that are superstitious, in conjuction with societies that are entrenched in magic, having interactions with humans, such could create interesting scenarios and stories. This could all happen continuity-free, but it is enhanced when it takes place in a continuity-filled universe, in a coherant involved universe. Why? Because this allows for interactions between characters that would normally not interact (and those that would but are seperated because they are not in the book). It allows for good stories to be told, to add more complexity to stories. It allows for unforeseen yet logical forces to impose themselves on a given situation. And once can do this without excessive exposition which is almost guranteed. Most out of continuity stories benefit from continuity since they do not have to elaborate on the personalities of various characters since it is "a given" due to continuity. In fact, when characters are written completely free from their continuity couterparts or done so in a more cryptic manner, we get all sorts of whining and complaining (Allstar Batman). So again, I don't get this. There's nothing wrong with a coherent, comprehensive universe nor is there anything wrong with continuity.

People lack creativity if they can't make continuity work. Morrison's X-men did much like what I said above for Aquaman, created a situation that allowed him to do what he liked and worked with it. And it was wonderful. I don't get people's hatred for continuity. The article is bad because they do not explain why each of the scenarios they presented can't exist in one universe. All they did was explain plot lines and storylines that either have existed in a continuity-filled universe or could. The fact that characters are so finely seperated by geography, by function, by ability type, by environment, by the type of adventures they partake in (magic vs. science vs. street crime vs. underwater and so forth) is reason enough that each hero could exist in a comprehensive, continuity-filled universe and still have their adventures and still interact if they wanted to.

kidspider2099 wrote:

Jherek wrote:I like some of those ideas a lot. Personally I think the concept of 'continuity' or 'canon' has done more to stifle creativity within the comic medium than any other. Some of the best comics produced in the last thirty years have been 'out of continuity'. - Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, All Star Superman, Gaiman's Sandman, Kingdom Come, Elseworlds etc.

In the case of DC or Marvel - as long as the core attributes of a character are adhered to, e.g. Bruce Wayne fights evil to avenge his parents death, Superman is sent from a doomed planet to earth and gains powers, I welcome any attempt to free the comics medium from unecessary limitations.

I agree with you Jherek. I think some really good stories can come off a continuity free zone. It allow the writer to do really good stories without being bogged down by all the history of the character.

Thats why i liked exiles. It was continiuty free and they did lots of good stories.

Exiles still had to work within their own continuity. An episodic continuity is a bad idea. Completely no continuity would mean no relation of one story from the next. And that would be bad. I don't think people are limited by continuity, since each story that does not utilize exposition or comments on the character's past in detail is using continuity without realizing it. Good stories can come from contiuity (Morrison's X-men) and good stories can come from those seperate from continuity. These stories are good because they were good in their own merits, not because they were completely out of continuity (even then, how often does this occur without an annoying amount of time spent on exposition). I mean, I look at Jherk's list:
Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, All Star Superman, Gaiman's Sandman, Kingdom Come, Elseworlds .

Watchmen and Gaiman's Sandman are the only two that truly have their own continuity. And even then, a large amount of time is spent creating the world and laying down exposition. All the others take place in a world where one has to take what they know about past continuity and apply it to a what if? scenario. So again, I don't get people's hatred for something that is minimal in it's interference (what, people are mad because they can't just make up powers as they go along and can't pull stuff out of their ass? Red Hulk is a good example of essentially contuity free writing and see how well that went), and often enhances the story (removes the need for exposition, provides a basis for characters, abilities, limits, and world order---how well would Final Crisis have worked without continuity? It would have been good but severely hampered). I'm not saying you need continuity to tell a good story, but blaming continuity and screaming "it won't let me!!! Waaah!!" like a lot of writers seem to do is silly and doesn't make sense. It seems like an excuse a writer comes up with when they are not creative enough. Like continuity is some editor controlling the story. Oye. I don't get it and I've tried to get it since people love spouting off against continuity like it slept with their girlfriend or something. It just seems like a whole lot of silliness, quite honestly.

*Punches article to feel better* Opposing viewpoints are the enemy!

Very good list. Pretty much all characters have the potential to stand alone, but yea, Batman? Totally.

Like Batman, Green Arrow's best times were when he was pretty much alone in the 80s ongoing.

Metal Men and Aquaman make sense because they work so well as self-contained elements being the background of their worlds.

Captain Marvel, to me, still doesn't quite fit in. They really squeezed him into Wonder Woman's "space," his outfit is annoyingly close to The Flash's, and having a magic-Superman next to Superman is kind of bleh sometimes and makes Superman even more stupid to me.

Ugh...

Stupid list is stupid.



The fury of caps lock is growing....

Just tell a good story with them that's true to their roots. Most classic DC characters come from heavy genre roots and the super-heroing they did back in the day was very little like what we have now. You don't have to take them out of the U to tell those stories, just don't have as much crossover stuff and let each book build up and be itself for a while. Have people crossover and team-up in team books like JLA/JSA or team-up specific books like Superman/Batman and Brave & the Bold.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:Ugh...

Stupid list is stupid.



The fury of caps lock is growing....

So. Um. How do you really feel?

Captain marvel yes, the rest?

HELL NO!

Seriously though ever since the original crisis when the marvel family were forced to be a part of the dc universe the characters have been completly destroyed to the point where they are unrecognisable.

Earth S based series is needed stat!

Wow, interesting, but I will have to say no as well.

jaydee74 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:Ugh...

Stupid list is stupid.



The fury of caps lock is growing....

So. Um. How do you really feel?

Yeah, don't hold back dude.


Anyway my point is who cares about continuity? I mean the 'so and so couldn't do that because of issue whatever' type of continuity not the logical train of cause and effect within a narrative. You can't get rid of that...can you..? *CoughGrantMorrisoncough* Oh wait.

shining knight wrote:
Earth S based series is needed stat!

I especially agree with this. Out of all of them, Fawcett's universe really sticks out like a sore thumb. Maybe should've moved them to Vertigo/DC and turned them concept or something. Having them have very loose connections with the DCU. A retry at what Marvelman/Miracleman was as well. Kid Eternity started in Vertigo. Just a thought.

I'm feeling the same way with Milestone characters in DC. Except for Static, everyone else is just a copy of someone else, it feels.

Quality and Charlton were brilliantly added. Red Circle is even fitting in pretty well. More than I thought they would.