Characters and their Powers - Am I thinking too much into this?

I recall having a discussion about how people utilize their powers and the general nature of various powers and thought it would be interesting to hear what other people had to say:

"As for telepathy equalling telekinesis, even Emma Frost understands that telepathy generally means one has telekinesis and a host of other powers as well, but he never manifests his powers in those ways. I have always wondered why that is. Since telepathy involves altering the neural firings, then such means that a physical change is being influenced on the brain, which in means that person A is doing something to person's B's mind using his mind. That means Person A is moving things with his mind. Which means Person A has telekinesis. Also, Person A's powers are similar to biokinesis (Elixer), charge manipulation (any "-kinesis" that involves electricity and thus electromagnetism), and even the alteration of chemical gradients (this would also entail the disruption of thermodynamics and thus, heat would also be able to be controlled). This might explain why Cable was so powerful at full power. In any case, a truly skilled telepath can do all sorts of things as well. I'm not saying Xavier is not a good telepath or can do all these things, but a telepath that is not holding back and really experiments with his/her powers can do alot of things."


I also wonder who else has powers that can be utlized differently. I recall reading how Electro's powers, with some practice could be similar to a junior version of Magneto, who could pull off Electro's powers. I also recall discussing the full extents of Iceman's powers, since his powers essentially come down tot he control of heat, meaning he can do more than just freeze, but rather go the opposite direction with it as well. Knowing that Human Torch has a almost empathic sense of how to handle fire (like Forge and machines) one has to wonder what he could do.

Hmmm.....

There are many forms of telepathy, but the default is the reading of thoughts--all five senses' recordings onto neurons that burst electrochemical charges through the synapses of an organisms brain--and sometimes the transference of ones own thoughts into someone else's mind. Again, many types. Tons of speculation in the realm of parapsychology.

Mind control and other forms of ESP go off into other directions.

**************
Speaking of control of elements with one's mind, how about Gladiator (Kallark)?

It is like his own mind, like Scarlet Witch, can warp reality itself, specifically for his own being in the time/space continuum. If he has the confidence, he can withstand many things. The extent of his ability is untapped. He can speak in the vacuum of space, he can build-up radiation inside his frontal lobe and fire it out of his eyes...he can withstand a supernova.

It's just like the old discussion about characters with flight ability (Angel, Nathan Patrelli), where some came up to the conclusion that they must have some sort of invulnerability to keep them from getting injured while flying in high speed or landing.

Or invincible characters (Luke Cage) that somehow by default have super-strength.

It should be seen as a way of evolution, for a person's natural or given abilities developing further sets of abilities that will either help him exploit the original powers to their full potential (like the case with Iceman and Human Torch) or just aide them when using their main set of abilities (Like in the case of Luke Cage).

On the same note, it's sad that Marvel never really explored the "Second Mutation" angle from couple of years ago. Grant Morrison started it and especially focused on Emma Frost and Beast. I think Iceman also went through the process, but it was later retconned. Angel had a nice development (under writer Chuck Austen - yikes) but it was gone too after awhile. Just think what could've done with all the MU Mutants with the "Secondary Mutation", taking them straight into a new age and help them face new and current threats way better.

^ I thought a lot of those "2nd mutations" were still canon? Emma still turns to diamond, ya? Beast's devolution makes sense, and Iceman is still a literal ice man.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:I recall having a discussion about how people utilize their powers and the general nature of various powers and thought it would be interesting to hear what other people had to say:

"As for telepathy equalling telekinesis, even Emma Frost understands that telepathy generally means one has telekinesis and a host of other powers as well, but he never manifests his powers in those ways. I have always wondered why that is. Since telepathy involves altering the neural firings, then such means that a physical change is being influenced on the brain, which in means that person A is doing something to person's B's mind using his mind. That means Person A is moving things with his mind. Which means Person A has telekinesis. Also, Person A's powers are similar to biokinesis (Elixer), charge manipulation (any "-kinesis" that involves electricity and thus electromagnetism), and even the alteration of chemical gradients (this would also entail the disruption of thermodynamics and thus, heat would also be able to be controlled). This might explain why Cable was so powerful at full power. In any case, a truly skilled telepath can do all sorts of things as well. I'm not saying Xavier is not a good telepath or can do all these things, but a telepath that is not holding back and really experiments with his/her powers can do alot of things."


I also wonder who else has powers that can be utlized differently. I recall reading how Electro's powers, with some practice could be similar to a junior version of Magneto, who could pull off Electro's powers. I also recall discussing the full extents of Iceman's powers, since his powers essentially come down tot he control of heat, meaning he can do more than just freeze, but rather go the opposite direction with it as well. Knowing that Human Torch has a almost empathic sense of how to handle fire (like Forge and machines) one has to wonder what he could do.

Hmmm.....

Great insight, Wade. I think I remember having a discussion with you about this back in the day. Your theories on it make a lot of sense.

BlueMaxx wrote:There are many forms of telepathy, but the default is the reading of thoughts--all five senses' recordings onto neurons that burst electrochemical charges through the synapses of an organisms brain--and sometimes the transference of ones own thoughts into someone else's mind. Again, many types. Tons of speculation in the realm of parapsychology.

Mind control and other forms of ESP go off into other directions.

**************
Speaking of control of elements with one's mind, how about Gladiator (Kallark)?

It is like his own mind, like Scarlet Witch, can warp reality itself, specifically for his own being in the time/space continuum. If he has the confidence, he can withstand many things. The extent of his ability is untapped. He can speak in the vacuum of space, he can build-up radiation inside his frontal lobe and fire it out of his eyes...he can withstand a supernova.

Good observation. It always annoys me that most people look at Gladiator's "confidence-based" power set as a liability rather than a strength. Yes, it can potentially be a problem for him, but more often than not it should be a big strength. Kallark has always been very cocky and confident about his abilities, so confidence has never really been a problem for him. His powers, as originally conceived, are psionically based where he can essentially do anything he wills himself to do...very "Silver-Age" stuff.

Bigtymin504 wrote:Very "Silver-Age" stuff.

Yes! I liked that he reflected that about DC's Superman.

BlueMaxx wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:Very "Silver-Age" stuff.

Yes! I liked that he reflected that about DC's Superman.

Exactly. He was an homage to Silver-Age Superman...that ridiculously (often comically) powerful god-like version of Supes.

I always wondered why Electro was never a bigger threat since his powers lend itself to electromagnetism, Spidey should not be able to handle this guy. I would be so interested in seeing Gladiators origin told to find out what race he is and why someone so powerful would be so loyal to the Shiar Empire.

DickGrayson007 wrote:I would be so interested in seeing Gladiators origin told to find out what race he is and why someone so powerful would be so loyal to the Shiar Empire.

Well he's Strontian from the planet Strontia. His origin was recently told in the book War of Kings: Warriors #1 It's good, I recommend you check it out:

http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=12172



Here's an interior pic from the book showing a young Kallark

Bigtymin504 wrote:

DickGrayson007 wrote:I would be so interested in seeing Gladiators origin told to find out what race he is and why someone so powerful would be so loyal to the Shiar Empire.

Well he's Strontian from the planet Strontia. His origin was recently told in the book War of Kings: Warriors #1 It's good, I recommend you check it out:

http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=12172



Here's an interior pic from the book showing a young Kallark

Thanks for the info I will definitely be picking this up on Friday. I would love to see this guy exiled to earth and have him interact with the rest of the Marvel U on a regular basis

^ Well, that's interesting. I've always wondered why there weren't more like him.

As for Electro, that is usually Spider-Man's, like a good few's, villain theme. Deity status villains, like Sandman, Hydroman, are usually doofuses that don't fully comprehend the extent of their capabilities, while smart villains are usually simplistic but very deadly because they can use their meager abilities to their max (Doc Ock, Vulture, Kraven, etc.). But ya, Electro is evolving as a character. 'Specially when Magneto taught him the magnetism at his grasp.

speaking of..
I sometimes think that teleportation and superspeed could be linked together like, a speedster could run so fast his or her atoms or molecules could all break together at once and the whatsawhozits all run to the same place and a big smoke cloud like Nightcrawler's cloud appears like the collison of something that leaves dust in its wake.

^ I could see that for certain characters, but it doesn't make full sense for some, namely Nightcrawler. He opens up a rift to the Negative Zone to...wait, why does he do that? Wouldn't a dimension layered be the same distance? How does he bamf into areas without seeing where he's going. And I'm not talking about this plane of existence--what if he bamfs into a rock or fiery stuff in the Negative Zone? Damn you, Spider-Fan, now I'm gonna be thinking of the complexities of his powers. Maybe a form of clairsentience (psychometry) that hasn't been explained by writers?

BlueMaxx wrote:^ I could see that for certain characters, but it doesn't make full sense for some, namely Nightcrawler. He opens up a rift to the Negative Zone to...wait, why does he do that? Wouldn't a dimension layered be the same distance? How does he bamf into areas without seeing where he's going. And I'm not talking about this plane of existence--what if he bamfs into a rock or fiery stuff in the Negative Zone? Damn you, Spider-Fan, now I'm gonna be thinking of the complexities of his powers. Maybe a form of clairsentience (psychometry) that hasn't been explained by writers?

oh, Nightcrawler can actually do that? i thought it was a made up thing for the recent Strange Tales mini. also i checked Wikipedia and it says he has Spatial-temporal reasoning, a thing that allows him to not port into solid objects so i kinda say that's an adequate explaination for me.

^ Oh...straining towards aneurysm subsiding.

I recall Grant Morrison did something pretty darn cool with Aquaman's powers in his JLA run. I can't remember quite what - but something to do with knocking a guy out by telepathically controlling his aquatically evolved cerebral cortex or something anyway it made me uncharacteristically punch the air and yell 'YES! Aquaman is finally the dude!!'

While on the subject of the use of powers - X-Ray vision has always puzzled me, like it's always depicted as rays coming out of the eyes but X-rays don't work like that. I mean if you shoot x-rays at something it doesn't become transparant, you need a photographic plate for that. So what's the deal with X-ray vision (or heat vision or any optic ray blasts come to that)? And are there any alternate uses?

I think heat vision (Optic blast) is just a term. I mean, when it comes to Cyclops, his frontal lobe has built up radiation, and most likely due to his x-gene, a bodily resistance to burns and cell poisoning as shown when him and his brother, Havok, fought and their powers didn't effect them at all.
Superman builds up solar energy somehow?

As for X-ray vision--again, I think it is just a term because Superman's "X-ray vision" is more like see-through whatever object desired except lead. He doesn't see things in the negative like an X-ray does, and it doesn't continue, it stops wherever he focuses. So, me thinks that his super-vision, telescopic and microscopic vision, plays into him looking a great distance and hazes through the atoms of objects. Maybe? Like holding a sheet up against your face--you can technically see through it.

http://uk.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi825623065/


This is the episode of X-men Evlolution where they discuss Nightcrawlers powers and how he goes thru other dimentions, it seems as plausable as anything else.


I also want to comment on the super strength/ invunerable thing. Tomer said "Or invincible characters (Luke Cage) that somehow by default have super-strength." I do not think it works this way. I do not think because they are invincible/invunerable they have super strength by default. I think because they have super strength they are invunerable by default. small change in wording but a big differance. if you think about it a normal person can break a hand or at the minimum get bloody knuckles by punching something hard. now imagine someone who can lift tons hitting something. they would shatter every bone in their arm! I think the invunerability comes as a way to protect their body from their own strength.

^ Luke Cage has thick-skin, though. I get what you're saying, and that very well could be a logical answer to it, but I was thinking--for Luke, anyway--that when our pain reception is turned off, we can be ridiculously strong. I'm talking average human being, not even a weight-lifter. Plus, if he has an epidermus that is on-par with, say, titanium--if he gets his arm inside Iron Man's armor or a car, it'd be like the jaws-of-life when he started plying it. Learned that physics from Brit.

here is my thought on the x-ray vision. I think X-ray vision is just a term for it. If you think about how a MRI works it uses the magnetic forces of water molecules to see parts of the body. So if you are suspending disbelief to belive someone can see through things, it wouldnt be hard to think that the person (superman for example) can use a mixture of the heat, magnetic, and nuclear properties of the body/wall/object being seen or blocked out.

Jherek wrote:I recall Grant Morrison did something pretty darn cool with Aquaman's powers in his JLA run. I can't remember quite what - but something to do with knocking a guy out by telepathically controlling his aquatically evolved cerebral cortex or something anyway it made me uncharacteristically punch the air and yell 'YES! Aquaman is finally the dude!!'

That was in JLA: New World Order where he was facing down the White Martians. Since they're Martians and thanks to J'onn for explaining how they evolved from fish based life, Aquaman could give the White Martians like aneurysm/migraines by overloading their Basal Ganglia.

shark6495 wrote:So if you are suspending disbelief to belive someone can see through things, it wouldnt be hard to think that the person (superman for example) can use a mixture of the heat, magnetic, and nuclear properties of the body/wall/object being seen or blocked out.

Hrm. That's solar energy alright. And lead blocks heat, magnetism and radiation. So that's why he'd be unable to see through it. Nice.

Esbat wrote:

Jherek wrote:I recall Grant Morrison did something pretty darn cool with Aquaman's powers in his JLA run. I can't remember quite what - but something to do with knocking a guy out by telepathically controlling his aquatically evolved cerebral cortex or something anyway it made me uncharacteristically punch the air and yell 'YES! Aquaman is finally the dude!!'

That was in JLA: New World Order where he was facing down the White Martians. Since they're Martians and thanks to J'onn for explaining how they evolved from fish based life, Aquaman could give the White Martians like aneurysm/migraines by overloading their Basal Ganglia.

That was it. You've saved me having to search through my collection, thanks!

My point being that any writer with a small amount of creativity could make even the lamest powers awesome. It's a shame it happens so seldom.

BlueMaxx wrote:

shark6495 wrote:So if you are suspending disbelief to belive someone can see through things, it wouldnt be hard to think that the person (superman for example) can use a mixture of the heat, magnetic, and nuclear properties of the body/wall/object being seen or blocked out.

Hrm. That's solar energy alright. And lead blocks heat, magnetism and radiation. So that's why he'd be unable to see through it. Nice.

Yeah that all works. So, having established that, what cool things could Supes be doing with that ability that we haven't seen already?

Jherek wrote:

BlueMaxx wrote:

shark6495 wrote:So if you are suspending disbelief to belive someone can see through things, it wouldnt be hard to think that the person (superman for example) can use a mixture of the heat, magnetic, and nuclear properties of the body/wall/object being seen or blocked out.

Hrm. That's solar energy alright. And lead blocks heat, magnetism and radiation. So that's why he'd be unable to see through it. Nice.

Yeah that all works. So, having established that, what cool things could Supes be doing with that ability that we haven't seen already?

Walk around telling people they have cancer, blocked arteries, and telling people if they will have boys or girls?