Wonder Woman's new costume

jaydee74 wrote:So far, I feel like JMS has "Marvel-ized" Wonder Woman. Maybe my opinion will change once I read a few issues but I just don't know. I've got questions. Lots of them.

1. What is Wonder Woman's status with the DCU?
2. Is she still considered a founding member of the JLA?
3. What is Hippolyta's history with the JSA?
4. What is the relationship between Diana and Donna Troy?
5. How does Cassie Sandsmark (Wonder Girl) fit into everything?

I do hope that JMS will touch on these questions.

For now it feels exactly like Spider-Man was for some time after OMD, with the readers not sure what the rest of the MU know about him at the time and how it his place in the universe has changed. With Diana there further more ramifications, because she was de-aged and now her status with the original JLA is unclear.

LordD3r3k wrote:

jaydee74 wrote: and "Superboy Prime punched a wall"

Man, I really hate this comment. Sorry, but this scene has been used so out of context it's ridiculous.

How come? I always hear references to stuff that happened due to the punch (Ollie Queen's resurrection, for example) or just in jokes. Other than that, I don't know what you're referring to.

Tomer Soiker wrote:How come? I always hear references to stuff that happened due to the punch (Ollie Queen's resurrection, for example) or just in jokes. Other than that, I don't know what you're referring to.

Not because it changed things, but the WHY it changed things. It was a pretty elaborate scheme that alot of people just brush off as "Superboy Prime punched a wall".

It's just a shame that "punching a wall" became the focus, instead of giving credit to Alexander Luthor for being a master manipulator moving various pieces into motion with SBP as his tool.

LordD3r3k wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:The Volumes are:

G-ds and Mortals
Challenge of the G-ds
Beauty and the Beasts
Destiny Calling

Excellent. Thanks buddy

Anytime my friend and the list is in order. The first one is so amazing.

Tomer Soiker wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:So far, I feel like JMS has "Marvel-ized" Wonder Woman. Maybe my opinion will change once I read a few issues but I just don't know. I've got questions. Lots of them.

1. What is Wonder Woman's status with the DCU?
2. Is she still considered a founding member of the JLA?
3. What is Hippolyta's history with the JSA?
4. What is the relationship between Diana and Donna Troy?
5. How does Cassie Sandsmark (Wonder Girl) fit into everything?

I do hope that JMS will touch on these questions.

For now it feels exactly like Spider-Man was for some time after OMD, with the readers not sure what the rest of the MU know about him at the time and how it his place in the universe has changed. With Diana there further more ramifications, because she was de-aged and now her status with the original JLA is unclear.

I do get the OMD vibe from this. I guess I just want to know how it all fits and I want to know now. It seems that things are going to change in a lot of ways and I'm just curious as to how.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Tomer Soiker wrote:How come? I always hear references to stuff that happened due to the punch (Ollie Queen's resurrection, for example) or just in jokes. Other than that, I don't know what you're referring to.

Not because it changed things, but the WHY it changed things. It was a pretty elaborate scheme that alot of people just brush off as "Superboy Prime punched a wall".

It's just a shame that "punching a wall" became the focus, instead of giving credit to Alexander Luthor for being a master manipulator moving various pieces into motion with SBP as his tool.

Sure thing it happened as part of the story and Alex was the master schemer behind it all, but the biggest problem people have with that act is how it was used as an excuse by editors to change continuity. Jason Todd is not really back from the dead, but his corpse is missing and suddenly he is back? Superboy Punch! There's a new, 20th version of the Legion of Super-Heroes? Superboy Punch! The Doom Patrol is back? Superboy Punch! I know that some or all of it was explained eventually, but at first they were all retcons caused simply by that punch.

Tomer Soiker wrote:Sure thing it happened as part of the story and Alex was the master schemer behind it all, but the biggest problem people have with that act is how it was used as an excuse by editors to change continuity. Jason Todd is not really back from the dead, but his corpse is missing and suddenly he is back? Superboy Punch! There's a new, 20th version of the Legion of Super-Heroes? Superboy Punch! The Doom Patrol is back? Superboy Punch! I know that some or all of it was explained eventually, but at first they were all retcons caused simply by that punch.

Aaaaand we're right back to my point.

But... that's exactly what happened. Be Alex responsible for everything or not, it was still Superboy's punch that caused all the problems. Your problem is just semantics? "It's magic!" isn't exactly right either, you know...

Tomer Soiker wrote:But... that's exactly what happened. Be Alex responsible for everything or not, it was still Superboy's punch that caused all the problems. Your problem is just semantics? "It's magic!" isn't exactly right either, you know...

My problem is that the scene is overshadowed by fanboy bitching

I kid, I kid. Again, like I said earlier, it's a shame the scene is remembered for all these silly things outside of the story itself, which showed some great cunning on Alex's part. He knew he simply couldn't ask Prime to do these things "for the greater good". Alex had to spend years wearing him down until finally Prime actually believed it was his idea and doing the right thing.

But it's human nature to be more vocal about the stuff that makes us angry instead of the good things

oh, and it wasn't just SBP's punch, it was really Alex's making physical representations of these other worlds that allowed SBP to do anything. It's not like he was just shadow-boxing and the universe broke apart

Tomer Soiker wrote:"It's magic!" isn't exactly right either, you know...

Difference being is that was Marvel's actual response to the incident, whereas "Prime Punch!" was the battlecry of the rabid fanbase

LordD3r3k wrote:

Tomer Soiker wrote:"It's magic!" isn't exactly right either, you know...

Difference being is that was Marvel's actual response to the incident, whereas "Prime Punch!" was the battlecry of the rabid fanbase

Lol no it wasn't. That was the same kind of rabid fanbase battlecry that you're defending DC from. There was a lot of story and sacrifice behind it, not just "it's magic", just like you're saying about the "Prime punch".

Bigtymin504 wrote:Lol no it wasn't. That was the same kind of rabid fanbase battlecry that you're defending DC from. There was a lot of story and sacrifice behind it, not just "it's magic", just like you're saying about the "Prime punch".

Dude, those were JMS's exact words! It became a battlecry because people were so disgusted he said it

LordD3r3k wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:Lol no it wasn't. That was the same kind of rabid fanbase battlecry that you're defending DC from. There was a lot of story and sacrifice behind it, not just "it's magic", just like you're saying about the "Prime punch".

Dude, those were JMS's exact words!

I'd have to see the context of that. And if somebody is asking "how" it all happened then that makes sense, that's what DC's explanation is on the "how" of all the post IC changes.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

I'd have to see the context of that. And if somebody is asking "how" it all happened then that makes sense, that's what DC's explanation is on the "how" of all the post IC changes.

Allow me to rephrase, that was what JMS said was Marvel's stance.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

Anyway, this is all really getting away from the point.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

I'd have to see the context of that. And if somebody is asking "how" it all happened then that makes sense, that's what DC's explanation is on the "how" of all the post IC changes.

Allow me to rephrase, that was what JMS said was Marvel's stance.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

Anyway, this is all really getting away from the point.

Yeah I see it. Like I was saying if you're asking the "how" Mephisto specifically changed everything then that's a perfectly fine response. That's essentially the same as DC's position with the continuity changes post-IC. They explained all the changes with reality being altered by Superboy-Prime's punch of the extradimentional wall. There's no explanation of the "how" that actually happened, just like OMD.

That interview makes me wonder how he plans on explaining all the changes he's got lined up for Wonder Woman. He could end up looking like a real hypocrite after all this.

Bigtymin504 wrote:Yeah I see it. Like I was saying if you're asking the "how" Mephisto specifically changed everything then that's a perfectly fine response.

Not when it's quoted in its full context. "It's magic, we don't have to explain it.". That's why it became a battlecry with fans, because there was no actual explanation. It just 'was'.

That interview makes me wonder how he plans on explaining all the changes he's got lined up for Wonder Woman. He could end up looking like a real hypocrite after all this.

Yeah, it seems odd to do a complete revamp here. But again, along with the costume, I think it's only temporary. A trick of the gods that gets resolved by the end of his run

LordD3r3k wrote:Not when it's quoted in its full context. "It's magic, we don't have to explain it.". That's why it became a battlecry with fans, because there was no actual explanation. It just 'was'.

If they're being asked to explain the specific "how" Mephisto changed stuff then I think it's a perfectly fine response. That's like asking DC to specifically explain "how" all their Crisis revamps that changed reality worked, there's no way to specifically explain that beyond "reality was altered and that's that". Anyway, I think some fans are just too nuts about this kinda stuff. These are fictional universes, if the company decides to do a revamp of something in it then as long as they give a decent explanation like magic or reality warping (within the context of these universes, those constitute as decent explanations lol) then I don't see the big deal.

Yeah, it seems odd to do a complete revamp here. But again, along with the costume, I think it's only temporary. A trick of the gods that gets resolved by the end of his run

We shall see. I for one am interested in the story. But like you said earlier, I hope Wonder Woman isn't too "street-levelized" during all this. Ultimately, I think the changes of OMD and BND did wonders for Amazing Spidey, the book has never been better IMO, and the opinion of most comic reviewers it seems. So maybe this will be a great thing for WW in the end.

Btw, like my Ross sig? It's a new piece he did, just found it.

^ I do. Seeing Cap and Thor in Stark's helmet's reflection is a nice touch. Giving Black Panther some love...I've always liked his Scarlet Witch artistry.

Bigtymin504 wrote:Btw, like my Ross sig? It's a new piece he did, just found it.

Indeed! There's not many Ross pieces I don't enjoy.

Bigtymin504 wrote:I think some fans are just too nuts about this kinda stuff. These are fictional universes, if the company decides to do a revamp of something in it then as long as they give a decent explanation like magic or reality warping (within the context of these universes, those constitute as decent explanations lol) then I don't see the big deal.

Same. As long as there's a good story behind it, I'm usually down for just about anything.

I hope Wonder Woman isn't too "street-levelized" during all this.

From that teaser in #600, that's kinda my fear. Sure, it looked like she still had her speed and fighting ability, but what about the strength? I mean, this is a character that realistically could beat Superman (and did!), they should embrace that instead of shy away from it.

Bigtymin504 wrote:Btw, like my Ross sig? It's a new piece he did, just found it.

It's pretty fantastic. I really like how he's positioned Vision and Scarlet Witch.

Bigtymin504 wrote:Btw, like my Ross sig? It's a new piece he did, just found it.

The reflections on Ironman's face make it look like he has a Mr. Pringles mustache.

I'm willing to give this new direction a chance but so far, I'm not in love with where it looks like it could be going. Maybe I'll feel differently and this will be a refreshing and interesting change to Wonder Woman but right now, I just haven't seen enough and from what I've seen, it's just fair.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:Btw, like my Ross sig? It's a new piece he did, just found it.

Indeed! There's not many Ross pieces I don't enjoy.

It's a pretty awesome piece of work. It's an excluseive at the San Diego Comic Con.