dear networks cable and otherwise.

superdoug wrote:

Joshua wrote:
Anyway, if the high quality of The Office is considered getting crapped on, I wish someone would crap all over me.

But I get kidspider's point about America not really encouraging creativity in its own handiwork anymore. It's much easier to grab a hit concept (Big Brother, Let the Right One In, X-Factor, etc.) from another country and adapt it to an American audience (whether it needs adapting or not) than try to come up with something unique and original. At least, that's the message those of us viewers with brains are getting from said actions.

No British comedy can ever compare to 30 Rock.

Heytherejeffro wrote:No British comedy can ever compare to 30 Rock.

Well, I don't know about that. Certainly, 30 Rock stands out as a (if not the only) consistently fantastic American TV show, with its zany quick-cut humor helmed by the incredibly funny and talented Tina Fey. But there are plenty of British sitcoms that are just as funny and bizarre. In that vein of comedy, Spaced, Black Books, and Little Britain come to mind as great Brit-coms.

But I will concede that when Americans apply themselves, they exhibit a level of talent congruent with the rest of the world, creatively. Unfortunately, those instances seem to be very far apart when it comes to American TV and movies. Easier to remake than to think!

superdoug wrote:
P.S., I'm pretty sure that people are allowed to be annoyed by shit that doesn't directly affect them. I've never seen The Jersey Shore, but I know that it's crap, and the whole idea is the cultural STD that America has been developing since the Me Generation started being in charge. I've never been an Alaskan or a Republican, but Sarah Palin bugs the high holy crap out of me. Anyone is allowed to be annoyed by what annoys them. They don't need to rationalize it to those who aren't annoyed and try to convince them to be annoyed as well.

But if it's something that doesn't directly affect someone and they can easily avoid it (I know of Jersey Shore and Palin's show, but I have never seen anything of either save for the odd tv commercial and I don't plan to either), is there really a productive point in being annoyed by it, or is it just complaining for the sake of complaining? (not meant as a barb at anyone, just an honest, curious, question).

And as for British shows being redone for American audiences, most British shows I've seen are either epic mini series or the standard 6 episodes a season shows. Part of the appeal is getting more of a show you enjoy, only with jokes that are culturally relevant to you (The Office has been redone in several countries, not just America).

Gojiratoho wrote:But if it's something that doesn't directly affect someone and they can easily avoid it ... is there really a productive point in being annoyed by it, or is it just complaining for the sake of complaining? (not meant as a barb at anyone, just an honest, curious, question).

Can't that question be asked of any pet peeve? Is there any point in getting annoyed with the woman with four rowdy kids in the aisle ahead of you at the grocery store? Is there any productive point in complaining about a movie you didn't like? Is there any productivity in being irritated with something you read on a message board?

I think that complaints like the original in this thread are made not to just openly bitch about something at random, but to express displeasure and determine if you're the only one who feels that way. Yes, it would be better (and easier) to just roll your eyes and go read a nice book or something, but sometimes you wonder if your peeve is justified or if you're just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

superdoug wrote:
But I will concede that when Americans apply themselves, they exhibit a level of talent congruent with the rest of the world, creatively. Unfortunately, those instances seem to be very far apart when it comes to American TV and movies. Easier to remake than to think!

I think that's an unfair comparison, considering America also produces far more movies and television programming than the rest of the world. Yeah, there are a lot of remakes, but there's also a lot of original content out there. You also have to consider that a lot of the original content that tries to get made for television gets canceled, while cheap reality shows and remakes tend to thrive among American markets.

Sorry. I think it's a problem in America when people cater to idiots, which is the direction we're headed. I agree that there's a lot of good original stuff out there, but it requires people to think, and movie/TV/advertisers aren't really interested in making people think. They want to numb them down so that they'll accept whatever half-warmed leftover is placed in front of them.

While I enjoy brain candy, I don't think that those people catering to the lowest denominator is pointing our country and our ingenuity or creativity in the right direction. I mean, when Sarah Palin is held up to America as the voice and de facto leader of the middle class, someone should have rubbed their eyes and gone 'seriously...what the FUCK is wrong in this country?' Instead,, they gave her a reality show and a desk at Fox News, and said 'YAY! Mediocrity is AWESOME!'

I love my country, but it's really riding the rim of the bowl at this point, creatively and intellectually. And that I place at the foot of both consumer and producer.

superdoug wrote:Sorry. I think it's a problem in America when people cater to idiots, which is the direction we're headed. I agree that there's a lot of good original stuff out there, but it requires people to think, and movie/TV/advertisers aren't really interested in making people think. They want to numb them down so that they'll accept whatever half-warmed leftover is placed in front of them.

While I enjoy brain candy, I don't think that those people catering to the lowest denominator is pointing our country and our ingenuity or creativity in the right direction. I mean, when Sarah Palin is held up to America as the voice and de facto leader of the middle class, someone should have rubbed their eyes and gone 'seriously...what the FUCK is wrong in this country?' Instead,, they gave her a reality show and a desk at Fox News, and said 'YAY! Mediocrity is AWESOME!'

I love my country, but it's really riding the rim of the bowl at this point, creatively and intellectually. And that I place at the foot of both consumer and producer.

While I agree with you on several points, I don't think the decay of intelligence in America is a recent deveopment. People have pretty much always been the same and they'll probably continue to be the same. Bad entertainment will always coexist right alongside the good, as it always had. Often times it's said that older movies are better than modern ones, but that's only because no one remembers all of the garbage because terrible things don't generally stand the test of time. The notion of remakes is certainly not a new one. Hollywood has always purloined previous concepts and repurposed them for their own uses.

Isn't Big Brother the most popular program on British television?

superdoug wrote:
Can't that question be asked of any pet peeve? Is there any point in getting annoyed with the woman with four rowdy kids in the aisle ahead of you at the grocery store? Is there any productive point in complaining about a movie you didn't like? Is there any productivity in being irritated with something you read on a message board?

All your examples are things that directly affect someone (the subject chose to visit a message board or watch a movie, or was stuck in a grocery store with annoying children).

I'm wondering if complaining about something that is easier to avoid than complain about is really worth complaining about in the first place. I detest Outsourced for several reasons (the biggest of which is Parks and Rec got pushed back to mid-season so NBC could air it), but while I watch all the other Thursday night NBC shows, I've never seen more than a handful of commercials for it. It's easier for me to avoid it entirely than to complain about it.

Heytherejeffro wrote:Isn't Big Brother the most popular program on British television?

Yes. That's why it got canceled earlier this year.

Correction; it WAS one of the most popular shows on TV.

So what do the British do that makes their television better? I'd like to know (said in a completely non-douchey way).

A lot of the British "comedy" I've seen was, for the most part, not that funny. Maybe I just prefer "jokes" to "wacky chase scenes" and knights that demand shrubberies...

I'm not a border-blind-flag-waving-"USA USA USA"! kind of guy (my favorite style of music is, ironically, grime), but most of what I hear about are British shows that are just derivative of older British concepts anyways.

^^^And did Doug just use Fox News as a barometer for the American public?

It is pretty crappy when shows are constantly being recycled and re-done to appeal to different audiences. I mean, when Shakespeare totally ripped off Plutarch in Antony and Cleopatra to appeal to the Renaissance audience, well, that was totally unforgivable.

Point being, that this type of creative recycling is going to happen, and has happened since prehistory. A lot of our creative process stems from the oral tradition of storytelling. Stories used to be passed passed between people, with each person adding their own twist to it every time they re-told the story. I think this is much of the same thing, someone saying, "Hey, I heard this great story from the Brits. Now I want to tell it to my people in a different way." Granted, it doesn't always work perfectly, but there are plenty of 100% American made shows that suck balls, too.

Nice to know those Theatre History and Art History classes came in useful once in my life.

Heytherejeffro wrote:Correction; it WAS one of the most popular shows on TV.

So what do the British do that makes their television better? I'd like to know (said in a completely non-douchey way).

A lot of the British "comedy" I've seen was, for the most part, not that funny. Maybe I just prefer "jokes" to "wacky chase scenes" and knights that demand shrubberies...

I'm not a border-blind-flag-waving-"USA USA USA"! kind of guy (my favorite style of music is, ironically, grime), but most of what I hear about are British shows that are just derivative of older British concepts anyways.

Maybe your experience with British comedy should extend beyond Benny Hill and Monty Python. I find that the Brit-coms tend towards more 'realism' (i.e., people aren't living in $1500 a month lofts when they're working as a video clerk, and such), and I find that the dry wit of British humor is less...vulgar (the other definition) than American humor. Here are some great Brit-coms that I enjoy and enjoyed:


David Allen at Large
Black Books
Spaced
Are You Being Served?
The Vicar of Dibley
French and Saunders
Keeping Up Appearances
Coupling
Little Britain
Murder Most Horrid

Heytherejeffro wrote:^^^And did Doug just use Fox News as a barometer for the American public?

When a clear majority of the American public (my parents included) seem to be taking their misinformation and cues from that network, I think that it's a very accurate barometer of America and how fucked up our priorities and desire to know the whole story actually are.

Captain Painway wrote:... Art History classes came in useful once in my life.

My Art History classes came in useful for a joke.

"She's like a Degas, from afar, she's beautiful. Up close? She's just a big, ol' mess."

Gojiratoho wrote:

Captain Painway wrote:... Art History classes came in useful once in my life.

My Art History classes came in useful for a joke.

"She's like a Degas, from afar, she's beautiful. Up close? She's just a big, ol' mess."

My favorite part was Dada. Not only a fun word to say, but claiming that crap is art? I'm all for it.

superdoug wrote:
David Allen at Large
Black Books
Spaced
Are You Being Served?
The Vicar of Dibley
French and Saunders
Keeping Up Appearances
Coupling
Little Britain
Murder Most Horrid

How many of those have been adapted for American audiences?

Does anyone know what the percentage of American programming that has come from the BBC actually is? I have no idea, but were I gambling man, I'd wager it's a small number.

Gojiratoho wrote:

Captain Painway wrote:... Art History classes came in useful once in my life.

My Art History classes came in useful for a joke.

"She's like a Degas, from afar, she's beautiful. Up close? She's just a big, ol' mess."

Um...that joke is actually from Clueless:

Cher: Oh, she's a full on Monet.
Tai: What's that?
Cher: You see, it's like the painting see, from far away it's okay, but up close it's a big ol' mess.

Still funny, though.

I know, but thanks to Art History, I got it (even if I didn't remember the artist, whoopsies).

The American shows that were remakes, and what their American names were. Shows in my previous list are bolded.:

Agony -- The Lucie Arnaz Show
Airline -- Airline
Da Ali G Show -- Da Ali G Show The second (two series) series by Channel 4 in the UK and HBO in the US
Antiques Roadshow -- Antiques Roadshow
Are You Being Served? -- Beanes of Boston (never aired)
As If -- As If US remake canceled after two episodes
Ballykissangel -- Hope Island
Being Human -- Being Human Coming to SyFy in 2011.
Birds of a Feather --Stand by Your Man
Blackadder -- 1775 US pilot aired 5th Sep 1992 but no series followed.
Blackpool -- Viva Laughlin! US remake canceled after two episodes (CBS)
Brat Camp -- Brat Camp
Cash in the Attic -- Cash in the Attic
CD:UK -- CD USA
Celebrity Fit Club -- Celebrity Fit Club
Changing Rooms -- Trading Spaces
Cold Feet -- Cold Feet
Cracker -- Cracker
Coupling -- Coupling US remake was cancelled after four episodes.
Dad's Army -- The Rear Guard Pilot episode only.
Dancing on Ice -- Skating with Celebrities
Dear John -- Dear John Known as Dear John USA in the UK
Distraction -- Distraction Same host (Jimmy Carr)
Dog Eat Dog -- Dog Eat Dog
Don't Forget Your Toothbrush -- Don't Forget Your Toothbrush
Eleventh Hour -- Eleventh Hour US remake cancelled after one US season despite 12m viewer average (CBS)
Faking It -- Faking It
The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin -- Reggie
Fawlty Towers -- Chateau Snavely -- Amanda's -- Payne (They took three runs at this one!)
Footballers' Wives -- Football Wives In development
Ant & Dec's Gameshow Marathon --Gameshow Marathon
George and Mildred -- The Ropers
Gladiators -- American Gladiators
The Grimleys -- The Grubbs
Hell's Kitchen --Hell's Kitchen
Hit Me Baby One More Time -- Hit Me Baby One More Time
Holding the Baby -- Holding the Baby
Home to Roost -- You Again?
Honey, We're Killing the Kids -- Honey We're Killing the Kids
How Clean Is Your House? -- Kim and Aggie Clean Up America
I'd Do Anything -- I'd Do Anything
It's Me or the Dog (UK) -- It's Me or the Dog (USA)
I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! -- I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here!
The IT Crowd -- The IT Crowd Pilot cancelled in 2008
Keep it in the Family -- Too Close for Comfort
The Krypton Factor -- The Krypton Factor
Life on Mars -- Life on Mars
Little Britain -- Little Britain USA
Love Thy Neighbour -- Love Thy Neighbor
Man About The House --Three's Company
MasterChef -- MasterChef
Max Headroom -- Max Headroom
Men Behaving Badly -- Men Behaving Badly
Mind Your Language -- What a Country
Mr. Men and Little Miss -- Mr. Men Show
Never Mind The Buzzcocks -- Never Mind The Buzzcocks
The 1900 House Frontier House -- Frontier House
Not the Nine O'Clock News -- Not Necessarily the News -- The Daily Show
The Office -- The Office
On the Buses -- Lotsa Luck
One Foot in the Grave -- Cosby
Outnumbered -- Outnumbered
Pop Idol -- American Idol
Porridge -- On the Rocks
Queer As Folk -- Queer as Folk
Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares -- Kitchen Nightmares
Red Dwarf -- Red Dwarf Two un-aired pilots
Robin's Nest -- Three's a Crowd
Robot Wars -- Robot Wars: Extreme Warriors
Scrapheap Challenge -- Junkyard Wars transatlantic challenges in the UK.[1]
Secret Millionaire -- Secret Millionaire
Shameless -- Shameless US version starring William H. Macy. Premieres on Showtime in January 2011.
Skins -- Skins US version to premiere on MTV in 2011. UK version shown on BBC America.
Spaced -- Spaced Only a pilot episode was made.
Spitting Image -- D.C. Follies
Steptoe and Son -- Sanford and Son
Strictly Come Dancing -- Dancing with the Stars
Supernanny -- Supernanny
Teachers -- Teachers
That Was The Week That Was -- That Was The Week That Was
The Thick of It -- The Thick of It
This Life -- First Years
Till Death Us Do Part -- All in the Family Coincidentally, the All in the Family spinoff Maude was remade in the UK as Nobody's Perfect, and the Maude spinoff Good Times was remade as The Fosters. None of the UK series were connected to each other or to Till Death Us Do Part.
Touching Evil -- Touching Evil
Top Gear -- Top Gear
Top of the Pops -- Top of the Pops
Trigger Happy TV -- Trigger Happy TV
Two's Company -- The Two of Us
Upstairs, Downstairs -- Beacon Hill
The X Factor -- The X Factor
The Vicar of Dibley -- The Minister Of Divine Confirmed pilot starring Kirstie Alley
The Weakest Link --Weakest Link
Undercover Boss -- Undercover Boss
What Not to Wear -- What Not to Wear
Who Do You Think You Are? --Who Do You Think You Are?
Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? -- Who Wants to Be a Millionaire
Whose Line Is It Anyway? -- Whose Line Is It Anyway?
Wife Swap -- Wife Swap (ABC) -- Trading Spouses (Fox)
Wild at Heart --Life Is Wild US version cancelled after thirteen episodes.
The World's Strictest Parents --The World's Strictest Parents



So, actually, quite a bit of American TV (very little of that list I enjoy) started out as British TV. That's very interesting to know, even if it does fuck up my points.

superdoug wrote:The American shows that were remakes, and what their American names were. Shows in my previous list are bolded.:


Da Ali G Show -- Da Ali G Show The second (two series) series by Channel 4 in the UK and HBO in the US
(The Second season was produced by HBO, right? Not really a "remake").
Are You Being Served? -- Beanes of Boston (never aired) (Because it's crap)
CD:UK -- CD USA (We originally called it MTV)
Celebrity Fit Club -- Celebrity Fit Club (Our fat celebrities are way better anyways)
Changing Rooms -- Trading Spaces (Same concept, better name)
Dancing on Ice -- Skating with Celebrities (Crap on any continent)
Footballers' Wives -- Football Wives In development (Again, crap)
Ant & Dec's Gameshow Marathon --Gameshow Marathon (They invented the gameshow marathon? We have a network for that shit!)
Gladiators -- American Gladiators (We did it better)
Hell's Kitchen --Hell's Kitchen (Same dude, not as much of a remake as the same show, but in a better place)
Hit Me Baby One More Time -- Hit Me Baby One More Time (Named after lyrics from an American song?)
Honey, We're Killing the Kids -- Honey We're Killing the Kids (Not nearly as awesome as it sounds)
It's Me or the Dog (UK) -- It's Me or the Dog (USA) (I'm living this, and I'm not British)
I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! -- I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! (Again, our celebrities are better)
Little Britain -- Little Britain USA (OK, this one I'll give to you)
Love Thy Neighbour -- Love Thy Neighbor (An unnecessary "u" doesn't make it better)
Man About The House --Three's Company (We will forever use this as why we're better)
MasterChef -- MasterChef (We had a show about Halo?? Awesome!)
Max Headroom -- Max Headroom (Coca Cola = America!)
The 1900 House Frontier House -- Frontier House (Again, we just made the title less stupid)
Not the Nine O'Clock News -- Not Necessarily the News -- The Daily Show (SNL/Weekend Update?)
The Office -- The Office (Produced by Ricky Gervais so he could get wealthier)
One Foot in the Grave -- Cosby (Don't fuck with Cosby)
Pop Idol -- American Idol (Garbage)
Queer As Folk -- Queer as Folk (Homophobic gay bashers)
Robot Wars -- Robot Wars: Extreme Warriors (Like Battlebots?)
Spaced -- Spaced Only a pilot episode was made. (Bummer that this is the one that wasn't adapted...)
Steptoe and Son -- Sanford and Son (Our version is better)
Strictly Come Dancing -- Dancing with the Stars (Dumb)
Supernanny -- Supernanny (Same lady, same show?)
Trigger Happy TV -- Trigger Happy TV (Same exact show?)
The Vicar of Dibley -- The Minister Of Divine Confirmed pilot starring Kirstie Alley (That name totally makes sense to the majority of humans I know of)
What Not to Wear -- What Not to Wear (Yes, but people dress hideously everywhere)
Wife Swap -- Wife Swap (ABC) -- Trading Spouses (Fox) (Chappelle's Show Season 1 produced the idea first, I believe)




So, actually, quite a bit of American TV (very little of that list I enjoy) started out as British TV. That's very interesting to know, even if it does fuck up my points.

Commentary added.

Considering how much content is currently running on American networks, that doesn't strike me as very many shows.

Joshua wrote:Considering how much content is currently running on American networks, that doesn't strike me as very many shows.

I guess not, considering that spans the entirety of TV broadcasting. But that's still a significant number of shows, many of which are or were giant successes in America.

So, while a fair number of Brit-coms and dramas and reality don't stick and suck serious ass, there seems to be an equal number of shows that found an audience and enjoyed some small (or in other cases enormous) success.

superdoug wrote:
So, while a fair number of Brit-coms and dramas and reality don't stick and suck serious ass, there seems to be an equal number of shows that found an audience and enjoyed some small (or in other cases enormous) success.

Fair enough.

One thing I forgot to mention, and Jeffro hit upon it briefly with his commentary, is that a lot of times it's not a matter of American execs drinking Britain's milkshake as it is British execs shopping their programs around. Simon Cowell and Ricky Gervais come to mind, though I don't know the actual ratio of shows they sold us versus concepts we aped.