Detective Comics

What does everyone think of the first Batwoman Detective without JH?


DC #861

I thought it held up fairly well. Jock's style, though a lot less detailed and more "Tim Sale"-ish than JH's, got the job done. But getting the "job done" isn't in JH Williams reportoir. The man simply OWNED with his art. So, regardless of who was drawing this (other than MAYBE Doug Mahnke, or Jim Lee), the art simply wouldn't compare. As for the story, it might be typical and far from unusual, but the teamwork between Dick and Jane, err Kane, was what did it for me. Regardless of not being on the classic level as the last couple arcs, it's still very good.

3.5/4 Bags&Boards - But almost a 4.

I thought Detective Comics #861 was good. Thought I'm a little confused. Was the Batman and Batwoman stuff happening at the same time, or was the Batman stuff in the past? The Batman costume had the yellow oval on it, so that indicates the past, but it wasn't clear to me.

LOOSECANNON wrote:What does everyone think of the first Batwoman Detective without JH?

I was happy he was gone. I just wasn't much of a fan of the painted art.

^ That was Dick, JM. Almost positive. I'm sure the story is to parallel their detective work. Hope Kate wins. Seems Batwoman has a Buffalo Bill to her Sterling with Stabber. I'd like to see where this arc goes for sure.

Issue #861

The excellence continues. I sound like a broked down record with this book but I just love it each and every month. JH Williams art is a thing of beauty but I think the choice of Jock for this storyline seems perfect (and Williams is coming back anyway). Rucka has done such a wonderful job building this character.

At first I wasn't into The Question backup but with these last couple of issues Rucka's got me well and truly hooked with that as well. I think he's got into the groove now with the length of story in each issue and how best to use it.

Batman25JM wrote:I thought Detective Comics #861 was good. Thought I'm a little confused. Was the Batman and Batwoman stuff happening at the same time, or was the Batman stuff in the past? The Batman costume had the yellow oval on it, so that indicates the past, but it wasn't clear to me.

BlueMaxx wrote:^ That was Dick, JM. Almost positive. I'm sure the story is to parallel their detective work. Hope Kate wins. Seems Batwoman has a Buffalo Bill to her Sterling with Stabber. I'd like to see where this arc goes for sure.

You know what? I didn't pick it at the time but I actually think Batman25JM's onto it. I think the Batman story is in the past and that's actually Bruce Wayne. Doesn't the yellow oval seem like an obvious indicator of that? At this stage Batman and Batwoman seem to be on different cases but there's obviously a connection.

This serial killer is pretty shocking by the way.

^ I think you're right. It is just the bat symbol, no oval. Hrm. We'll see.

Here's a thought.. what if the Batman scenes ARE of Bruce and this kind of like a copy-cat killer that Kate is now trying to catch? Kind of like a "following the mentor's footsteps" kind of thing? Or maybe the killer is trying to lure Batman back out, but since it's Dick he may not pick up on the familiarity and the killer winds up getting Kate instead?

Just an idea that popped into my head. Another thing that could indicate it being a flashback was that Batman called Comm. Gordon "Jim". I don't think Dick's done that yet

LordD3r3k wrote:Here's a thought.. what if the Batman scenes ARE of Bruce and this kind of like a copy-cat killer that Kate is now trying to catch? Kind of like a "following the mentor's footsteps" kind of thing? Or maybe the killer is trying to lure Batman back out, but since it's Dick he may not pick up on the familiarity and the killer winds up getting Kate instead?

Just an idea that popped into my head. Another thing that could indicate it being a flashback was that Batman called Comm. Gordon "Jim". I don't think Dick's done that yet

I'm positive it's Bruce. I like your idea about it being a copy-cat killer. I guess we haven't seen as much info yet about who Batman's investigating so this could either be a copy-cat or whatever happens with Batman is how this guy that we're seeing in the present came to be.

I heard on the Word Balloon podcast that Batwoman is getting her own monthly title.

^ Yep. Forgot to mention that. It'll be in Fall, I believe. When she and Rucka leave Detective Comics. Hopefully J.H. Williams III'll follow.

BlueMaxx wrote:^ Yep. Forgot to mention that. It'll be in Fall, I believe. When she and Rucka leave Detective Comics. Hopefully J.H. Williams III'll follow.

So would that to be to coincide with Bruce Wayne being back and taking the book back over do you think?

No takers this week?

I can appreciate the simaltaneous storytelling and it's good to see Jock isn't THAT much a drop off from JHW2, but I still don't feel the same connection with this arc as I did with the past two. 3.5/5

Looks like Aussie's (I believe) theory was right, the Batman scenes are of Bruce in the past. Which makes my comment that this is the originally killer coming back, or at least a copy cat ring true. This was a solid issue. I like that Kate is always a little behind on the killer, which shows that she's not a seasoned crime fighter yet. Room to grow is always good.

LordD3r3k wrote:Looks like Aussie's (I believe) theory was right, the Batman scenes are of Bruce in the past. Which makes my comment that this is the originally killer coming back, or at least a copy cat ring true. This was a solid issue. I like that Kate is always a little behind on the killer, which shows that she's not a seasoned crime fighter yet. Room to grow is always good.

I said that the Batman stuff was in the past first DAMMIT!!!!

Batman25JM wrote:I said that the Batman stuff was in the past first DAMMIT!!!!

Ah, well then bravo good sir

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I said that the Batman stuff was in the past first DAMMIT!!!!

Ah, well then bravo good sir

Thanks.

Issue #862

I really, REALLY liked this issue. I just love the dual stories mirroring each other.

The backup was great as well. You know, I could really see Renee joining the new Birds of Prey.

Simone did such a great job incorporating Manhunter in her run, that Renee would very well be a fluid addition...

BlueMaxx wrote:^ Yep. Forgot to mention that. It'll be in Fall, I believe. When she and Rucka leave Detective Comics. Hopefully J.H. Williams III'll follow.

Well I'm a bit disappointed because after the next issue Rucka and Batwoman are out of this book for at least 2 issues. David Hine is doing a Batman/Arkham Asylum story for 2 issues then I don't know what's happening after that. I'll be dropping the book because I get it for Batwoman/Greg Rucka not Batman. While that's going on Rucka is still doing the Question backup story and, although it's really hit its stride and I like it, that's not enough to keep my buying the book. I don't really understand why they couldn't keep this as Batwoman up until the new book comes out. Perhaps it's being done this way to give JH Williams some good lead in time on the new title?

Batman25JM wrote:

LordD3r3k wrote:Looks like Aussie's (I believe) theory was right, the Batman scenes are of Bruce in the past. Which makes my comment that this is the originally killer coming back, or at least a copy cat ring true. This was a solid issue. I like that Kate is always a little behind on the killer, which shows that she's not a seasoned crime fighter yet. Room to grow is always good.

I said that the Batman stuff was in the past first DAMMIT!!!!

I've stolen your thunder before, I can do it again!

LordD3r3k - Agree with what you say there and I think all these things about Kate (like her still learning the role) make this such a great and cleverly written book.

I think Kate is up against the original killer. Looks like Bruce met him in his much earlier state and now he's progressed in a pretty horrible kind of way.

Batman25JM wrote:Issue #862

I really, REALLY liked this issue. I just love the dual stories mirroring each other.

The backup was great as well. You know, I could really see Renee joining the new Birds of Prey.

I was thinking the exact same thing about The Question! Wonder if maybe she won't because she's sort of a Rucka only type character most of the time.

Aussiemandias wrote:
I've stolen your thunder before, I can do it again!

Damn you and your uncanny ability to steal my thunder.

Aussiemandias wrote:
I think Kate is up against the original killer. Looks like Bruce met him in his much earlier state and now he's progressed in a pretty horrible kind of way.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Aussiemandias wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:Issue #862

I really, REALLY liked this issue. I just love the dual stories mirroring each other.

The backup was great as well. You know, I could really see Renee joining the new Birds of Prey.

I was thinking the exact same thing about The Question! Wonder if maybe she won't because she's sort of a Rucka only type character most of the time.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I would like to see more of her though, and I hope that she does indeed join the BoP or a the very least guest stars occasionally.

Detective Comics #863

Fun wrap up. There was something enjoyable about Bruce and Kate sharing the same case. I enjoyed the back up too. Vandal Savage! I don't exactly know why, but I get slightly giddy whenever he pops up.

DC #863

If you noticed, I haven't had a whole lot to say about this title as of late. With the future of Kate Kane still up in the air as to whether she'll remain the sole benefactor of Detective Comics or move on to her own book ala Spider-Woman, the level of play has recently dipped right along with these concerns. Jock has been as admirable a replacement for the godsend JH Williams as any, yet the difference in quality is all-too apparent. Funny thing, Jock's style actually "jocks" JH's just enough to keep the Batwoman vibe going; it's when Scott Kollins of Flash fame enters when things begin to muddle. The alternate window dressing of blues and reds to contrast Bruce and Kate's experiences serves an original dish, yet becomes a stale device come arc's end. Rucka hasn't exactly wowed me with the script either. In hindsight, I wonder if my 3.5 scores for the past two issues came solely on the basis of this title being so hot.

Trust me, friends, I'm not in a bad mood. A lot of my reviews this week have been negative for two reasons only: a.) I haven't read/reviewed Blackest Night, Transformers, Wonder Woman, Second Coming, or GI Joe Cobra yet (saving those for last), and b.) As primarily arc-closers, books released this week just haven't lived up to their potential. Let's hope for the thrill of it all that Kate Kane realizes her glorious potential with DC giving the superheroine what she truly deserves: a title penned by Rucka, penciled by Williams.

3/5 Mangled Body Parts - Oh, the back-up? I like the cartoony art; the contrast doesn't bother me nearly as much as Nomad's does with Captain America. Yet, I still find the current status of the Question floating ashore aimlessly....

LordD3r3k wrote:Detective Comics #863

Fun wrap up. There was something enjoyable about Bruce and Kate sharing the same case. I enjoyed the back up too. Vandal Savage! I don't exactly know why, but I get slightly giddy whenever he pops up.

I'm with you - this was excellent as usual. I'm convinced Detective Comics is one of the best comics around and Batwoman hands down one of the best realised and characterised new characters that have been created in recent years. Greg Rucka just continues to impress me and I'll follow him anywhere with this character.

Jock did a great job on these issues with his style melding perfectly with the story.

I'm with you on Vandal Savage too - I love the link now to the Question that Rucka's built and I'm even more interested in him now knowing his link (well that's guesswork) to the Rage entity. I think the Question backup is well and truly picking up now.

Just disappointed that all the momentum is about to be lost when Batwoman takes a hiatus from this book until her new book comes out.

LOOSECANNON wrote:DC #863

With the future of Kate Kane still up in the air as to whether she'll remain the sole benefactor of Detective Comics or move on to her own book ala Spider-Woman, the level of play has recently dipped right along with these concerns.

It's not up in the air - she's not going to be in Detective Comics much longer (in fact I think maybe just for one more issue) - she's getting her own book or at least that was on the cards. Now that Rucka's leaving DC who knows?

Liked the closing. Bette Kane is...who, exactly?

Vandal showing up with the Mark of Kain. Me thinks Rucka is trying to finish up old loose-ends in Crime Bible and FC: Revelations before his leave. Well, he's already left, but his stories haven't finished being published yet.

BlueMaxx wrote:Liked the closing. Bette Kane is...who, exactly?

Isn't she Batgirl?

^ Yeah. Not the original, but the "original" retconned, you know? I'm just wondering what the outfit is all about. Spin on the classic outfit?

Course, it looked a lot closer to Flamebird, and I already thought there was a new, retconned one out there. She was in Supergirl, last time I checked. And crazy powerful. Ize be confoosed.