Teen Titans

^ Well, I guess "Titans" can go here, my thread, my rules.

Read the latest ish, it was alright but the artwork could've been better imo. Also the story itself could e worked on cause I thought it sorta ended too soon.

LordD3r3k wrote:Does 'Titans' go in this thread too? Either way, things with Deathstroke's team are getting interesting. Last issue gave us a face off with 'Stroke vs. Batman (Grayson), and it was nice to see that just because he's Batman now doesn't mean that Slade still can't kick his ass.

My buddy actually came up with an interesting theory about Roy. Though people keep assuming he is, we actually haven't seen Roy shoot up in months. Perhaps he did kick it and is now faking it to get close to Slade for whatever reason? That'd be pretty interesting if that's the case

while that would be interesting, I am not so sure. I mean didn't they sto have comic book character smoking because they did not want to have them looked at in a negitive light or something? so if that is true I doubt they would have a scene of him ACTUALLY shooting up

Sandman wrote:while that would be interesting, I am not so sure. I mean didn't they sto have comic book character smoking because they did not want to have them looked at in a negitive light or something? so if that is true I doubt they would have a scene of him ACTUALLY shooting up

But they did already. Or while they may not of shown the actual needle in his arm, they showed just about everything else so you knew he used. But we haven't seen that in months

Teen Titans #90

Another enjoyable issue. It's nothing groundbreaking. The idea of a lonely, picked on teen getting powers and trying to get revenge isn't new, but the fact that other kids have power too is kinda cool.

It bugged me a little that they misspelled Damian's name in the issue. It seems like a stupid mistake.

Teen Titans: Cold Cases 1-shot

I thought this was pretty enjoyable. Though the timing seems weird. I'm pretty sure most of the people aren't on the TT's anymore, and isn't Red Devil dead now? Robin & Ravager have a bit of a falling out, and with the guidance of Deathstroke, Ravager finds himself in the mitts of the Rogue's. Robin & crew launch a rescue mission, and Deathstroke continues to mess with Tim's head over his father's death during Identity Crisis.

Teen Titans #91

This issue was decent. I'm glad they finally addressed the issue of Conner and Cassie.

Damian and Rose together is a nice. I'm liking him on the team more, but I still would rather have Tim.

The last page excited me more than I can say. I can't wait for Tim to team up with the Titans. I did have one problem though. Tim was draw to look too old. He looked like he was in his late 20s or early 30, not like he's in his late teens.

So, has anyone here read the Marv Wolfman/George Pérez New Teen Titans?

The Teen Titans are one of, if not my favorite, teams in comics, and I've been craving them lately. I'm rereading the Johns stuff, but I kind of want to go back and read the older stuff. I've never read it before. There is an omnibus coming out later this year collecting the New Teen Titans, and I'm strongly thinking of getting it. So, is the Wolfman/Pérez stuff as good as it's made out to be, and does it hold up all these years later?

^ I have the second volume of the new teen titans DC arcives. Its readable but since its r\early in the run you know that they do better work later on. Also next time I go to my lcbs I need to catch up on the last 2 issues of this current arc desperatly.

I haven't had a chance to read issue #92 yet, and probably won't for a few days, but I did skim it. Damian is off the team and Tim is back on. To say I'm thrilled it a colossal understatement.

Caught the last two issues of the first JT Krul arc, not bad overall but the art seemed sloppy and rushed alot of the time. I love Ravager and Robin forming a friendship, that was really nice.

Batman25JM wrote:I haven't had a chance to read issue #92 yet, and probably won't for a few days, but I did skim it. Damian is off the team and Tim is back on. To say I'm thrilled it a colossal understatement.

I skimmed it too and I missed the part where Tim was officially back on the team? Is that true cause if it is, I may have to get this book. I liked the part at the end with Dick and Damian and how Damian said how he considers Dick his only friend. It was actually really very touching. I mean for a touching Damian moment.

jaydee74 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I haven't had a chance to read issue #92 yet, and probably won't for a few days, but I did skim it. Damian is off the team and Tim is back on. To say I'm thrilled it a colossal understatement.

I skimmed it too and I missed the part where Tim was officially back on the team? Is that true cause if it is, I may have to get this book. I liked the part at the end with Dick and Damian and how Damian said how he considers Dick his only friend. It was actually really very touching. I mean for a touching Damian moment.

Since I've only skimmed it so far I don't know if Tim ever officially says "I'm back on the team", but from the dialogue I skimmed it's pretty clear that he is indeed back.

That would be awesome although would that mean he would go back to the leadership role? Somehow I think that would hurt Cassie's character a bit. If they did bring him back on the team though I could see a double leadership thing going on where Cassie is the field leader where Tim would be more of the strategist planning things out behind the scenes.

Batman25JM wrote:Since I've only skimmed it so far I don't know if Tim ever officially says "I'm back on the team", but from the dialogue I skimmed it's pretty clear that he is indeed back.

Actually, the dialogue doesn't state explicitly that Tim is back with the team on a permanent basis. Indeed,

Spoiler:

If it turns out to be true, I will be very happy. However, I will admit that Teen Titans has made me re-evaluate my opinion of the Bat-Brat (along with Supergirl and Batgirl). I would hope that he and Iris and Jai West will turn out to be the new Young Justice (ooh! Maybe Canary's Sin can turn up and join, too!).

jaydee74 wrote:That would be awesome although would that mean he would go back to the leadership role? Somehow I think that would hurt Cassie's character a bit. If they did bring him back on the team though I could see a double leadership thing going on where Cassie is the field leader where Tim would be more of the strategist planning things out behind the scenes.

I want Tim to go back to being the leader. It's his natural role. I'd like Tim and Cassie to sit down and have a conversation about what him being back means and have it end where she tells Tim that he belongs in the leadership role. I wouldn't mind Cassie being second in command. I'd also be fine if they decide to be co-leaders.

I just don't see Cassie staying the leader if Tim comes back. That dynamic would be weird. The others naturally look to Tim for guidance. Cassie's tenure as leader has been a disaster. Now, I know this is because of the writers, but it is in continuity that the team has been floundering. It would make sense for her to hand the reigns back to Tim. I mean, she really only became leader because Tim left.

superdoug wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:Since I've only skimmed it so far I don't know if Tim ever officially says "I'm back on the team", but from the dialogue I skimmed it's pretty clear that he is indeed back.

Actually, the dialogue doesn't state explicitly that Tim is back with the team on a permanent basis. Indeed,

Spoiler:

If it turns out to be true, I will be very happy. However, I will admit that Teen Titans has made me re-evaluate my opinion of the Bat-Brat (along with Supergirl and Batgirl). I would hope that he and Iris and Jai West will turn out to be the new Young Justice (ooh! Maybe Canary's Sin can turn up and join, too!).

This is one of my dreams. My wild fantasy dream is that Lian comes back and joins them as an Arrow of some kind. <3 <3 <3

Batman25JM wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:That would be awesome although would that mean he would go back to the leadership role? Somehow I think that would hurt Cassie's character a bit. If they did bring him back on the team though I could see a double leadership thing going on where Cassie is the field leader where Tim would be more of the strategist planning things out behind the scenes.

I want Tim to go back to being the leader. It's his natural role. I'd like Tim and Cassie to sit down and have a conversation about what him being back means and have it end where she tells Tim that he belongs in the leadership role. I wouldn't mind Cassie being second in command. I'd also be fine if they decide to be co-leaders.

I just don't see Cassie staying the leader if Tim comes back. That dynamic would be weird. The others naturally look to Tim for guidance. Cassie's tenure as leader has been a disaster. Now, I know this is because of the writers, but it is in continuity that the team has been floundering. It would make sense for her to hand the reigns back to Tim. I mean, she really only became leader because Tim left.

Honestly, I think that would be kind of boring and predictable, but I'll forgive you because I know how much you love love love Tim. I think co-leaders would be kind of cool, but letting Cassie take backseat just because Tim is back kind of debases her character at an excellent point to make up for the crappy missteps that have been made by writers beforehand. I think it would just reinforce that "no one knows how to write Cassie anymore" thing. I wish they would amp up her Amazon background a little because I think that would really bring out her abilities as a leader. But Tim has a good thing going in his book, and I feel like if Tim joined the Teen Titans full time it would just be a little too predictable. Plus then he's going to be in Teen Titans, Red Robin, and Detective Comics/Batman? It's a little much...and I tend to get burned out on Bats when he shows up in every book in the DCU, and he's the goddamned Batman.

I know I'm biased because I'm a HUGE Tim Drake fan, but I think he belongs on the Teen Titans. The Teen Titans should be made up of the biggest and best teen heroes of today, and Tim certainly fills that criteria. Also, the team is made up of his best friends. It makes sense that he'd be a part of that.

I feel it's wrong to have characters like Superboy, Wonder Girl, and Kid Flash on the team and then say it'd be boring or predictable to have Tim on the team. Why should he be the only one who is excluded? The Titans need a member of the Bat-family on the team to be whole IMO, and Damian just isn't a good fit. I would love it if Stephanie joined the team, but I'd still want Tim there too. Honestly, to me, it's even more specific than just any Bat family member, a Titans team isn't complete to me without either Dick or Tim on a team (which one depends on the age group of the Titan team).

Personally, I think Tim has been criminally underused since he became Red Robin. The only book he has steadily appeared in is his own. Sure, he's had some occasional guest appearances, but nothing permanent. His appearances in Detective Comics and Batman are not regular. If he became a full time member of the Teen Titans that would make him a regular in two books. That's not overkill. I mean, Conner is a regular in two books. Hell, Dick is in Batman, Detective Comics, JLA, and Batman & Robin plus guest appearances in other books.

Honestly, I don't think if Cassie stepped down as leader it would reinforce the "no one knows how to write her anymore" thing. She doesn't have to be leader to be written well. I think if she stepped down they could focus on getting her back on track and try to forget the crap that's been going on these past couple of years. It wouldn't have to be a demotion or anything. She could just realize that Tim is the right person for the job. I just don't see her leading a team with Tim on it. That dynamic just doesn't make sense to me. Yes, again, I am biased, but given the way the team dynamics have been written in the past it would seem odd to have Cassie lead Tim. And really, Cassie only assumed leadership because Tim left. She didn't show any real desire to be the leader, but did so out of necessity.

I mean just defaulting to let Tim lead because he's done it before is too predictable. Having Cassie step aside just because he's Tim doesn't contribute to their character, and it really does compromise her abilities because it does demonstrate that she can't handle being a leader, which really isn't and shouldn't be the case. And using the "well she didn't want to be leader" excuse is incredibly problematic because HOW MANY stories are there where someone who was reticent to take command finally does and in so doing proves themselves to be an even stronger character than before? Sorry, I just can't buy it. I think Tim would be a fun addition to have on the team, he's a good character, but I don't think just because he appears the rest of the team should immediately give in to his leadership.

Telling the same old stories is really the comic industry is stuck the way it is, and I just really don't think Tim playing leader will really add anything to the book. Let the new creative team tell their own stories without having to fall back into the comfort zone of letting a Bat be a team leader.

I don't see Tim being the leader meaning they'd have to tell the same old stories. I really don't. Just because he's the leader doesn't mean they couldn't come up with fun, new stories.

I really really don't see Cassie stepping aside as demonstrating that she can't handle being a leader. If she realizes that Tim is better suited for the job that doesn't mean she can't handle being a leader, it just means she thinks that it would work out better if he led.

The whole thing with somebody falling into a leadership role and then rising to the challenge has been done before. Why not go the route of having her lead when she had to, but stepping aside when she gets the opportunity? She did what she had to do when she had to do it. She did her best, and is ready to give the responsibility up. I don't see that as being weak or a failure, but as being humble enough to realize that there is somebody else who is a little better suited to lead the team. That doesn't mean she is unable (though the writers have written her as such), just that she knows it isn't working as it is now.

I've said it before, yes it is the writers fault that she's been written poorly, but that poor writing lead to poor leadership. Why not acknowledge that things aren't working the way they are and try and more past it? She can be a strong, well written character even if she's not leading the team.

It really doesn't have to be a slight against Cassie. Just have the team naturally look to Tim for leadership. He lead Young Justice, was the leader of the unofficial leader of the younger Teen Titans when Cyborg reformed the team, and then lead the team once Cyborg left. It'd just be an unconscious thing that with Tim back in the mix they'd fall back in to old patterns of behavior. After they naturally start following Tim have Tim and Cassie have a conversation where she says that he should lead. Have him resist it and say he doesn't want to step on her toes and after a conversation they come to an agreement that either he should lead with her as second in command, or they should co lead the team.

I feel like I've rambled a bit. If I did I'm sorry. I'm really tired right now.

Batman25JM wrote:I don't see Tim being the leader meaning they'd have to tell the same old stories. I really don't. Just because he's the leader doesn't mean they couldn't come up with fun, new stories.

I really really don't see Cassie stepping aside as demonstrating that she can't handle being a leader. If she realizes that Tim is better suited for the job that doesn't mean she can't handle being a leader, it just means she thinks that it would work out better if he led.

The whole thing with somebody falling into a leadership role and then rising to the challenge has been done before. Why not go the route of having her lead when she had to, but stepping aside when she gets the opportunity? She did what she had to do when she had to do it. She did her best, and is ready to give the responsibility up. I don't see that as being weak or a failure, but as being humble enough to realize that there is somebody else who is a little better suited to lead the team. That doesn't mean she is unable (though the writers have written her as such), just that she knows it isn't working as it is now.

I've said it before, yes it is the writers fault that she's been written poorly, but that poor writing lead to poor leadership. Why not acknowledge that things aren't working the way they are and try and more past it? She can be a strong, well written character even if she's not leading the team.

It really doesn't have to be a slight against Cassie. Just have the team naturally look to Tim for leadership. He lead Young Justice, was the leader of the unofficial leader of the younger Teen Titans when Cyborg reformed the team, and then lead the team once Cyborg left. It'd just be an unconscious thing that with Tim back in the mix they'd fall back in to old patterns of behavior. After they naturally start following Tim have Tim and Cassie have a conversation where she says that he should lead. Have him resist it and say he doesn't want to step on her toes and after a conversation they come to an agreement that either he should lead with her as second in command, or they should co lead the team.

I feel like I've rambled a bit. If I did I'm sorry. I'm really tired right now.

I'm really trying not to be rude, but all this really just sounds like is that you just don't want Cassie to be the leader so Tim can take over for no other reason than because Cassie just couldn't handle it...which there's no evidence for aside from "wow she had some really crappy writers" and that's really tiring. It really just sounds like you just don't want anyone besides Tim to lead the team and I can't tell if that's just because you're a rabid Tim fan (the same way I'm a rabid Wondy fan) or what, but I can't really hold that against you or anything because we all have our favorites that we want to be in everything. I think I'm just going to be done with discussing this and just chalk it up to a "to each their own" kind of thing.

I have to say I whole heartedly agree with Batman25JM. Tim is the leader of the team. not by default or because someone else was written poorly. Tim has earned it thru the years. To me and I am sure Batman25JM would agree the Titans are not the Titans with out a Robin, and Robin has always been a leader, that is thier character and it is what makes them unique. They have no powers or anything like that, and it speaks to thier characters that everyone else on the team defers to them when they have members that can bench press a buick or shoot lasers. I am not just talking about Tim here but Dick as well. I was also upset that Robin is not the leader in the young justice cartoon but have come to accept thst and have come to like what they are doing there very much. Don't get me wrong I am a big Cassie fan as well and believe that she too could be a great leader. as for what I wish would happen. I would like to see Cassie hand over leadership to Tim saying it was always his she was just holding on to it untill he got back, which she knew he would. but have her co leader, even to the point where Tim is grooming her to become a more effective leader. This could add some tension between Tim Cassie and Connor Connor starts to feel jelous that she is spending so much more time with Tim than she is with him, and starts to remember the kiss they had.

While I agree with a lot of what you said Sandman, I have to disagree a bit with one statement. Robin has not always been the leader of the Teen Titans. Maybe Dick Grayson has but not Robin. There was a time where Donna Troy led the Teen Titans and it was Jason Todd and not Dick Grayson in the Robin role at that time.

Sandman wrote:This could add some tension between Tim Cassie and Connor Connor starts to feel jelous that she is spending so much more time with Tim than she is with him, and starts to remember the kiss they had.

I agree with everything except the angst at the end of that. Conner and Cassie have addressed their issues and (kind of) resolved them. Tim and Cassie have addressed that kiss and resolved that. Cassie told Conner about the kiss in the pages of Adventure Comics, and he wasn't angry or bothered. Tim and Conner are best friends, and the three of them were best friends long before any awkward teen romance began.

There is no logical reason why the angst would suddenly pop up. Unless they're planning on bringing that asshat McKeever back.

I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU MCKEEVER. NEVER.

superdoug wrote:There is no logical reason why the angst would suddenly pop up. Unless they're planning on bringing that asshat McKeever back.

I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU MCKEEVER. NEVER.

This. 100% This.

jaydee74 wrote:While I agree with a lot of what you said Sandman, I have to disagree a bit with one statement. Robin has not always been the leader of the Teen Titans. Maybe Dick Grayson has but not Robin. There was a time where Donna Troy led the Teen Titans and it was Jason Todd and not Dick Grayson in the Robin role at that time.

yeah i was not reading when Todd wa around so it is easy for me to forget him. and i also realise grayson led when he was nightwing as well, but he was a robin that is what i ment by it, the name changed but the underlining character was the same