Red Robin

Batman25JM wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:
If I'm singling out a single character it's because I had really liked her characterization in Wonder Woman and especially in Young Justice. I liked how Geoff Johns evolved her when she became a member of the Teen Titans and when he left the book, I felt her character suffered the most and I kind of take exception to the fact that you assume I am saying this because she's a female character which couldn't be further from the truth.

I agreed with everything you said, especially this last part. It has NOTHING to do with her being a female. I love female characters. And I've said before how bad the book got after Johns left. Yes, pretty much, if not everyone, was written poorly. However, Cassie seemed to suffer the most, and it has seemed to stick with her. I've never read her in the old Wonder Woman stuff, and have only read a little of her in Young Justice, but when Johns was writing Teen Titans I thought she was a great character. Then he left, and McKeever kind of assassinated her character. After that others just continued the poor work McKeever had done. Now, with Krul on the book he's doing a better job with her, but I still don't think she's back to where she was.

Then call out the writer, not the character, dude. That's all I was saying.

WonderWoman2.0 wrote:Being annoyed at her characterization and contesting that is a different thing from going "yeah she sucked as a leader LOL" which you were kinda doing, whether you meant to or not. It kinda does make it sound like you're just ripping on one character from a book that treated all of its characters like weird Gossip Girl aliens because she's a girl or whatever you wanna say your reason was. Just sayin'. BUT, I see what you mean, and in terms of what you JUST posted, I do agree. I love that Cassie, and I like the Cassie that we've seen so far from Krul. She can be a leader, and she could be an awesome leader, she just needs a writer that will treat her character like an actual character and not like Heidi Montag.

So did it irk me when Bart was like "YEAH LOL CASSIE WHAT IS YOUR LIFE"...I get that Bart can be a troll sometimes, but openly being like "Haha, yeah our leader WTF? NOW TIM COME HERE AND LET ME AT YOUR PEEP YOU NATURAL BORN LEADER YOU." I was like whatevs.

See, that's why I said that she wasn't a leader the way she's been written lately. She sucked as a leader because she was written that way. Seriously, the team was a mess, and I swear I remember her saying something about having a hard time leading.

As for Tim being a natural born leader, he is. That's the way he's been written for years. And yes, I do admit that I want him to lead because he's my favorite comic character (tied with Bruce Wayne), and that I feel the team just isn't right without him. Now, he was the leader of Young Justice and the Teen Titan (after Cyborg and Starfire left). The others looked to him as a leader. So, it does make sense that him being back, if only for one mission, the others would naturally look to him. It's just getting back into their old rhythm.

I'm sorry if anything I said earlier came off as being like I was singling out Cassie because she's female or anything, but I really hate it when you can't say anything negative about a female character without it being labeled as sexist or something along those lines.

One, yeah there's nothing wrong with the Titans being like "Hey Tim's our go-to guy, so let's let him work this mission out." That makes sense. What's annoying is Bart's little trolly quip, which I think would irk someone who actually does give a shit about her character and who does remember her potential as a rad leading character and not her crappy treatment with past writers. I'm not labeling you a sexist dude, but take a quick sec to think if you would have been blaming Tim's character or the writers who wrote him into a crappy corner if it had been Tim being trolololololed for being a shitty leader. It's all about wording, and just being aware about who/what you're actually complaining about. I'm sure when you were writing you weren't like LOL FEMALES WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. But your initial word choice was "Yeah, Cassie's a crappy leader." Not, "Cassie has not been getting the kind of treatment and fun character like her should be getting."

I ain't mad, I'm just pointing stuff out.

I often call out both the writer and the character. I'll call the character out in story, but the writer out for writing them that way. In my initial post I said she wasn't a leader (the way she'd been written these past few years). I see that as calling out both. In story, which is in continuity, she's done a sucky job, but that is the fault of the writers.

Bart's little quip didn't bother me because it pointed out that the team has been a mess. Yes, it was saying it was because of Cassie, but in the story that makes sense. It is true that it's because of the writers, but to these characters all they see is Cassie. Bart isn't going to say "it's nice to actually have a writer who knows what they are doing". Also, Bart's been known to speak without thinking.

Batman25JM wrote:I actually like Gossip Girl.

Blair and Dan need to get together!!!!

Take your Gossip Girl talk somewhere else dude.

Why have him say anything, y'know? Cassie's his friend too... At some point, someone was like "haha, how funny would this be? Let's poke fun at how shitty this book's been, hey Cassie, you're turribul, LOL!" And then fanboys are like "Oh man she so is, writers are dumb."

The whole thing just makes me But it's whatever. Everyone's gonna think what they think, regardless.

jaydee74 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I actually like Gossip Girl.

Blair and Dan need to get together!!!!

Take your Gossip Girl talk somewhere else dude.

I have nowhere else to take it!!

I love so many shows that I have nowhere to talk about (Grey's Anatomy, Private Practice, Brothers & Sisters, Gossip Girl, One Tree Hill, 90210, etc). None of my friends watch them, and I'm sure almost no one one here does either. I'm all alone.

Thacher watches terrible TV like that, I'm sure you two could catch up on it.

I think you mean "terribly awesome TV".

Yes. That is what I meant.

I do agree with you Batman25JM. I think Tim should be on the Teen Titans. There really isn't a good reason why he can't be on the team unless it's for some creative purpose. If Dick can be on the JLA and star in the Batman books, why can't Tim do the same?

WonderWoman2.0 wrote:Thacher watches terrible TV like that, I'm sure you two could catch up on it.

What does he watch?

Batman25JM wrote:

I think you mean "terribly awesome TV".

WonderWoman2.0 wrote:Yes. That is what I meant.

jaydee74 wrote:I do agree with you Batman25JM. I think Tim should be on the Teen Titans. There really isn't a good reason why he can't be on the team unless it's for some creative purpose. If Dick can be on the JLA and star in the Batman books, why can't Tim do the same?

I know!! I totally agree with you agreeing with me.

Batman25JM wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:I do agree with you Batman25JM. I think Tim should be on the Teen Titans. There really isn't a good reason why he can't be on the team unless it's for some creative purpose. If Dick can be on the JLA and star in the Batman books, why can't Tim do the same?

I know!! I totally agree with you agreeing with me.

And I agree with all of that. Great. We're in agreement.