Batman and Robin

Sorry about the resizing. I'll fix these if I can.

Annnnnnd now Dark Side Club, again.



His tattoos. The Dragon obviously represents Martian Manhunter (he is fond of shape shifting into a dragon and it green) and the Bat is Batman, the two heroes who "die" in the pages of Final Crisis.

Consider Darkseid's Omega symbol the other day. It's supposed to be a sigil of sorts that helps enslave free people. It is a symbol for absolute evil. In Superman Beyond 3D, Ultra-man's symbol is very similar to an upside down omega symbol. Superman's symbol inverted is the Kryptonian symbol for resurrection, or "life" (which is also seen in the pages of Final Crisis). Ultra-man's symbol inverted is the omega symbol, the symbol for "anti-life". Thus the crisis on Earth zero is mirrored by the crisis of the Monitors, or is it the other way around? In either case, both stories are about life versus anti-life.

And some stuff on Oberson Sexton:



Morrisson established that Man-Bats retain superhuman hearing even in human form in his very first issue.


Talia's agents combed the lake where Batman was thought to have crashed. I think this is the same lake that where Joker's ambulence crashed. Ohberon a former Manbat? Joker a former manbat? Questions, questions, questions!!!!

Some Batmite. A mite with a parasite? Bruce wasn't hallucenating Bat-mite. It was really him. He's being constrained from acting directly by the parasite wrapped around him :


Something else interesting (the General, Sentry's arch-nemesis is here....this means The Void is really the Dr. Hurt and we are witnessing a secret merging of worlds----I kid, I kid ).



I always wondered if Jackson was a reference to mythological Odin (not Marvel's version lol).

Something I noticed:


So Batman had grand-parents when his parents were killed? Why did he not live with them? I wonder if this is Morrison's way of setting something up...


Then there's this:
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/09/01/is-there-anything-to-see-on-this-batman-and-robin-3-cover/

which leads into this:



Which led me to the most remarkable discovery of them all:
The ghost train is laughing; therefore the ghost train is a laughing, like a hyena, a morbid animal that cannot help but sound and be as it is---it's "laughing" is it's nature--it's laughing is natural--it is natural as it is, as Joker felt his reaction to everything was natural and anything but was truly insane; the ghost train reveals horrors to elucidate one's view of the society---the ghost train carries one towards an assault on one's understanding. Therefore, the ghost train is the ghost hyena attack. The ghost hyena attack represents, then, the shattering of an understanding of society, a person's reality, and thus represents the shattering of reality and the giving way to unreality. The ghost hyena attack is madness. The ghost is fiction thought to be real. The hyena as a dog is fiction that is reality (as a cat). The coyote that enlightened Animal Man and gave him a glimpse of true reality, his unreality, was not truly what it seemed...like the hyena. The ghost hyena attack is madness. It is the most perfect Joker Venom. The ultimate joke that is a joke yet an unreal thing that is more real than reality. The ghost hyena attack was long thought up before we conceived it.....like the symbolism of the bat. It is the counter to the bat. The yin to the yang (as Joker described himself when compared to Batman)....

However, is there anything truly to fear?

Consider: The Ghost Hyena Attack is the dark side of reality. The blackhole. The day evil wins. However, therein lies the trap. Evils wins, destroys reality and replaces it with unreality, the DCU's reality. In destroying our superhero-less reality, it gives way to the unreality which then becomes the new reality which is filled with supeheroes and thus a mean to fight evil. If superheroes cannot be made through science then they shall be made by shifting our collective view of reality---so good can truly trump evil. So reality will be a world where good always wins. Or this logic, this anti-death equation could simply be the lie that keeps people mollified, quiet and subdued, calm and peaceful. This could be the thing that keeps everyone in line. A means of control. This could really be the anti-life equation.




*The Ghost Hyena Attack refers to a Popcast---The Awards Ceremony Popcast, if I'm not mistaken but came up in the last one as well.

And something I found on 4chan:


Such foreshadowing:


Morrison is mocking us. He's playing us for fools I tells ya!



It all makes sense, it all connects!!!!

*notes the cup of coffee and the then the Ghost Train sign from above* *Further notes how it resmebles the black lantern symbols* *Notes the white lines--a la white lantern* The blackest night has been forteold for years. The Question discovered this long before anyone did. Someone hold me, I'm scared.






















But in all seriousness, I imagine most of this to actually truly connect in such fashion (I can't speak of the Ghost Hyena Attack or The Question lol---that was fun wans't it?). However, I can see how much of the stuff Morrison has put together working here. It's how his stuff tends to work.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll go sit in a corner and cry. I have a folder of this stuff and going over it makes me feel....oh no, like I'm on the ghost train. Damn you ghost hyena attack! Reality is unmaking itself, collapsing into a blackhole of insanity! Pop! Goes hope! Abandon hope, all ye who enter! BLARGH!!!!!!!

Very cool, thanks for those.

^No problem. It was alot of fun.

All this stuff just reminds me how cool Morrison is- this is a bit off topic but

Grant Morrison is like Marilyn Manson, using symbols and reoccurring themes and having people interpret it in different ways, it's why I love him.

Check this site out, you might dig it even if you aren't a fan. It has cool shit.

http://www.nachtkabarett.com

Example- 15

http://www.nachtkabarett.com/theOccult/15


He uses it A LOT. His birthday is 1/5, the devils tarot is 15.... it's cool stuff.

Brian Hugh Warner = 15
Born Jan 5, 1969 (1/5/69 | 1/5 .·. 6 + 9 = 15)

(From 1998)

Audience member : Regarding numerology, your new font is using a 1 and a 5, the release date is the 15th and there are allegedly 15 tracks on the album. Can you elaborate on...?

Marilyn Manson : [interrupts] January 5th is also my birthday. I'm going to be 30 this year, that's half my age. Marilyn Manson also equals 6. There's a lot of different things but if you look for coincidences you'll start realizing that there are no such thing as coincidences, that everything has a purpose.

The significance of the number 15 can be found intermittently and covertly throughout the Bible, numerology and the occult. Even further personalized for Manson, his birthday is January 5, 1969 ; a 15 double entendre with 1/5/69 containing both January 5th's representation as 1/5 = 15 and 69 combined as 6 + 9 = 15. Additionally, Manson's birth sign, Capricorn, is associated with the 15th card of the Tarot, uncoincidentally The Devil card.

15 is the product of 3 and 5 ; 3 being a very powerful number generally symbolizing strength, stability and the Holy Trinity, ultimately representing synthesis as it is the product of the activity of duality, and 5 which is often found to symbolize harmony, balance, magic and pure creativity. Their product together (3 x 5) creates 15, which if further combined in the form of 1+5, yields the sum of 6 which is often held to be the number of Man(son ; "The Son of Man") as on the sixth and last day of Creation, God created both Adam and Eve as,

...on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.




The sum of 1 and 5 equals 6, is also found throughout the Bible and occult lore, is held to represent sin and imbalance, being it a reflection of Man's nature, fallen from grace and expelled from the Garden of Eden. Manson made an ominous reference to the power of the number 3 in his autobiography 'The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell'

Is that very Morrison of him?


There's ALOT more on that about 15


Morrison likes Manson to, so it's even cooler.

Batman25JM wrote:I just really want another creator on Batman. I get that lots of people love Morrison, but sadly I am not one of them.

Well, the unfortunate thing is, Morrison is on Batman for the foreseeable future I believe. Either take it or find a new favorite character for the time being.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I don't know maybe. It just seems that Morrison gets away with things that a lot of other writers don't. It's like how people complain about people letting Bendis get away with stuff. Nobody really seems to care if there are minor problems (or major ones) with Morrison.

Alright, this is where I need to stop you. There's a HUGE difference in Morrison having Batman keep a secret room hidden from his peers (if this is even the case) and having Bendis flat out ignore continuity and laden a book with character inconsistencies to suit his story needs.

And to say Morrison gets away with anything is completely laughable as the man has been meticulously scrutinized for the last 4 years.

It's the first issue of a new arc which spent it's time building a mystery, and you're already calling fowl before we even know where the story is headed. It's abit ridiculous.

I gotta agree with this. I mean, he was fully criticized for his Final Crisis. I think he still is and there are a lot of people who still get on him for his X-Men run. From what I remember, I don't think Morrison left Marvel on the best of terms.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I wasn't talking about this specific story, I was talking about Morrison as a whole. And I wasn't comparing what Bendis and Morrison get away with, but that they both get away with things. Sure Morrison gets called out some, but I think people let a lot slide. He makes jumps that just don't flow, and I think other writers would be called out on that.

I think that's a matter of perspective. You are a Morrison fan, so I think you would be more lenient to his work than someone who isn't a fan. You may think that he's been scrutinized over the last 4 years, but I don't think he's been, at least not enough. I think a lot of things have slid by. Again, it comes down to opinion.

I'm sorry, were you not around for Final Crisis?

But seriously, every piece of work he's done for DC in the last 4 years has been met with criticism, aside from maybe Allstar Superman.

Y'know, between our conversation about Wonder Woman killing Max Lord being "brushed over", and now Morrison not getting critiqued enough, I really do question if there's a case of selective memory here

And as you say, I'm a Morrison fan. Therefore, wouldn't I have a pretty good idea how much he's been scrutinized considering I'm usually having to defend him?

I remember Final Crisis. Morrison is not someone I love but not someone I hate either. He'll never be my favorite because of the fact that he killed Jamie McCrimmon in the Doctor Who comics. Anyway, Morrison has been scrutinized a lot over the past few years. The thing of it is, you like Batman and right now, Morrison more or less runs Batman and he's going to for awhile. Like I said, you'll have to get used to it or find a new hero for a time.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I swear to God I didn't mean for this to turn into a Bendis vs. Morrison or SI vs. FC argument. I think I'm done arguing for now. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of going it alone as well. You guys like Morrison, and that's fine. I don't. To each their own.

NO! There are no such things as opinions, only right and wrong! There must be a sole survivor. TO THE THUNDERDOME! "TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES. TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES"

Oh dear lord. *Buys ticket*

I saw the link you put on there Doc, and I think the circus scenes from the first arc is connected to the Killing Joke. I mean, the circus freaks and the circus may be exactly from the KJ! great advice on those connections Doc!

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:^No problem. It was alot of fun.

I think Instead of being Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty you should be Detective Wade Fucking McNasty cause that was fucking impressive dude. Well done.

I think this is the first time I've seen jaydee curse!

LordD3r3k wrote:I think this is the first time I've seen jaydee curse!

You got a fucking problem with that?

We've created a monster!

LordD3r3k wrote:We've created a monster!

He's obviously fallen into the blakc hole. Jaydee is the new Darkseid.

Picked up issues 3-7 (yeah, I'm late..please don't kill me) of this series and... I’m lovin’ it. Re-reading the first two issues, the characters have a great dynamic and the first arc is a lot more fun than Morrison’s previous run on Bats. And the new villains in the first arc are great..all of them. Professor Pyg is the most interesting recently created villain in Batman. I found his dance to be quite hilarious. And Damian has finally stopped being an annoying little explicitly deleted and has now just become a fun new addition to the mythos, although still a bit of a thorn in the side. Dick Grayson makes a great Batman. It’s nice to see a Batman whose mind hasn’t been tampered with or been tortured or brooding for a change. Dick really does make the role of Batman his own, like many of the James Bond actors and the Hamlet actors. It’s quite fun. The style and change of tone is quite refreshing..after all the RIPs and DKR wannabe’s and the Dark Knight movie. The biggest problem is that Alfred and Gordon’s roles have been shortened. But then again, Alfred and Gordon haven’t been featured that much in Morrison’s previous run either. And of course, Frank Quitely knocks it out of the park as always. ∞/5

Then there’s the second arc. I was hoping to see Morrison do something new with Jason Todd and he kinda does by making Todd go all the way down the dark path. I was disappointed with Jason’s character in this. I don’t really see how Bruce could have ever picked him as a partner in this story. As for Flamingo, I’m mixed. He’s an interesting character in one hand and a bit too extreme in the other. He also gets taken out way to quickly after being hyped up during the last two issues.This story had potential and I was hoping for more interesting interactions between the characters. Also, the spirit of the first arc isn’t all there. Yeah, it’s supposed to be darker and it fits the story but it just makes the series feel like it’s missing something. Looking at the covers for this series, I can’t help but wonder if that thing is Frank Quitely. Now don’t get me wrong Phillip Tan does do some good art in this, but by the end of the arc it’s a bit too muddy. Now, I liked Tan a lot in FC: Revelations w/Greg Rucka, but this isn’t the same. This Morrison-Tan team feels like it’s more suited to do something like Thunderbolts. It’s good art and has a good story, but compared to the first arc, sadly not as good. But yes, there are some great parts in it, like the whole 1-800 number live/die gag and the scenes with a very 1960 Penguin. All in all I’d give this something like a 3.5ish/5


Also, if you’re looking for a definite confirmation for the Black Glove being the devil, that panel with the wings ripped from his back looks like one to me!

Now for issue 7. Team Seaguy strikes again! Seeing Cameron Stewart on this series makes up for Quitely’s absence, while Morrison goes back to writing a more fun, relaxed storyline. With more villains and the Knight and Squire, this series gets back on track. It’s a fun little romp with an intriguing last panel. Meanwhile, I’m uneasy about the characterization of Batwoman, but I’ll see how it turns out when I pick it up the next issue. Grading is too early to be said, but it looks like it’s gonna be great.

All in all, while I am behind on this series, I'm sure I’m enjoying it as much as you guys are.

Foreigner_Man wrote:I was disappointed with Jason’s character in this. I don’t really see how Bruce could have ever picked him as a partner in this story.

You have to remember, being reborn in the Lazarus Pit drove Jason abit crazy, as it is a common side effect.

^Thanks, I forgot about that. I guess that kinda justifies it.

Foreigner_Man wrote:

Hey where was this pic from?

^Batman and Robin no.6. It was on one of the last pages. Looks like Doctor Hurt's wings were ripped off to me.

Good catch F-M!

LordD3r3k wrote:

Foreigner_Man wrote:I was disappointed with Jason’s character in this. I don’t really see how Bruce could have ever picked him as a partner in this story.

You have to remember, being reborn in the Lazarus Pit drove Jason abit crazy, as it is a common side effect.

Yeah, that's true but I thought the effects are temporary. I guess the fact that Jason was dead and the pitt brought him back to life would be the reason why the effects are more long term. Also, maybe this is something new but did Grant make up the Jason being a redhead or was that something that was mentioned before? I actually like this revelation and it gives Jason a bit more reason to be bitter. The white streak in his hair was explained well enough and I also like it. I mean, Ra's has two stripes on the side of his head and that could also be from the effects of the pit.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:
Morrison is mocking us. He's playing us for fools I tells ya!



It all makes sense, it all connects!!!!

*notes the cup of coffee and the then the Ghost Train sign from above* *Further notes how it resmebles the black lantern symbols* *Notes the white lines--a la white lantern* The blackest night has been forteold for years. The Question discovered this long before anyone did. Someone hold me, I'm scared.



But in all seriousness, I imagine most of this to actually truly connect in such fashion (I can't speak of the Ghost Hyena Attack or The Question lol---that was fun wans't it?). However, I can see how much of the stuff Morrison has put together working here. It's how his stuff tends to work.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll go sit in a corner and cry. I have a folder of this stuff and going over it makes me feel....oh no, like I'm on the ghost train. Damn you ghost hyena attack! Reality is unmaking itself, collapsing into a blackhole of insanity! Pop! Goes hope! Abandon hope, all ye who enter! BLARGH!!!!!!!

For those two images alone I salute you, but for all of that research you deserve huge kudos. I tip my Bipperty Bopperty Wibbly Wobbly Chaos Magic Hat to you Doctor Wade! Never has the epithet AWESOME been so hugely deserved.

And thinking about it I wouldn't rule out Morrison giving himself a role in the whole shennanigans. He's got previous ( as we Brit detectives say)

Oh and Batman25JM before you even think of commenting let me do it for you...
'See that's what I hate so much about Morrison!'

Jherek wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:
Morrison is mocking us. He's playing us for fools I tells ya!



It all makes sense, it all connects!!!!

*notes the cup of coffee and the then the Ghost Train sign from above* *Further notes how it resmebles the black lantern symbols* *Notes the white lines--a la white lantern* The blackest night has been forteold for years. The Question discovered this long before anyone did. Someone hold me, I'm scared.



But in all seriousness, I imagine most of this to actually truly connect in such fashion (I can't speak of the Ghost Hyena Attack or The Question lol---that was fun wans't it?). However, I can see how much of the stuff Morrison has put together working here. It's how his stuff tends to work.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll go sit in a corner and cry. I have a folder of this stuff and going over it makes me feel....oh no, like I'm on the ghost train. Damn you ghost hyena attack! Reality is unmaking itself, collapsing into a blackhole of insanity! Pop! Goes hope! Abandon hope, all ye who enter! BLARGH!!!!!!!

For those two images alone I salute you, but for all of that research you deserve huge kudos. I tip my Bipperty Bopperty Wibbly Wobbly Chaos Magic Hat to you Doctor Wade! Never has the epithet AWESOME been so hugely deserved.

And thinking about it I wouldn't rule out Morrison giving himself a role in the whole shennanigans. He's got previous ( as we Brit detectives say)

Oh and Batman25JM before you even think of commenting let me do it for you...
'See that's what I hate so much about Morrison!'

I concur. Well done sir. Well done.