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The official; Doctor who thread

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451The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:50 pm

Jherek

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Foreigner_Man wrote:Okay I missed 'Angels' coz I was out of town. Dunno if I'd have watched it anyway..I don't think I want to see the sequel to 'Blink' & 'Library' on a tiny PC screen.

However I did see the new Dalek episode..I'll put some kind of review up later. The new Dalek design's alright..I'm mixed about the color code and the Daleks seem a little too big IMO, but it definitely gives the Daleks a vibe of classic 'Who,' which this series had definitely been doing.

Also
1) I don't see how this can be billed as 'Series 1,' which the internet has been claiming it is. You kinda need to see the previous stuff before viewing this IMO.

2) On my trip I watched the first two episodes again on BBC America, much to my roommate's dismay (the show kinda freaked him out The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517 ). It's interesting that some of the 'Silence will fall' foreshadowing stuff was cut out..I guess it was for commercial breaks, but they really cut out some great scenes.

Don't miss out. It's the best episode yet. Positively cinematic!

452The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:02 am

jaydee74

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Yeah. This last episode was pretty good. As for River. Wouldn't the Doctor know her if she was, say his wife or his actual daughter? Even if she's regenerated, wouldn't he know her?

453The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:07 am

shining knight

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My dad the uber old school whovian that he is thinks river song is
Spoiler:

454The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:13 am

jaydee74

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shining knight wrote:do what I do and refer to the series as series FNARG! Laughing
And that means what?

shining knight wrote:My dad the uber old school whovian that he is thinks river song is
Spoiler:
I was listening to a Doctor Who podcast and they came up with the same thing. That would be rather cool.

455The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:39 pm

Jherek

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jaydee74 wrote:Yeah. This last episode was pretty good. As for River. Wouldn't the Doctor know her if she was, say his wife or his actual daughter? Even if she's regenerated, wouldn't he know her?

Repeat after me...

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey. The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517

No the whole point of the relationship between River Song and The Doctor is that it's 'out of sequence' In other words the Doctor hasn't experienced his 'first' meeting with River yet (from her point of view) but has experienced his last (her death in the Library). So it's perfectly logical that even if she's his daughter, wife or whatever he wouldn't recognise her as such until the circumstances of her birth or first meeting with him have happened in his (relative) time line. Got it? The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 334450

As I've mentioned before I heartily recomend the novel The Time Traveller's Wife for more of this stuff (it's brilliant).

As to who River is. We won't find out this season if the various interviews with cast and writer are true (apparantly Alex Kingston after shooting these episodes still has no idea). I'm not sure Moffat will ever fully explain who she is. It might be left to a future Who writer to provide that particular spoiler.

And IMHO that's how it should be. Isn't she a far more interesting character and concept as long as we don't know? Any reveal at this stage will ruin the mystery and glamour.

456The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:52 pm

Jherek

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jaydee74 wrote:
shining knight wrote:do what I do and refer to the series as series FNARG! The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517
And that means what?

It's an in-joke that Moffat made up in Doctor Who Monthly which seems to have caught on. I don't care what number it is. It will inevitably become known as Matt Smith's first season.

jaydee74 wrote:
shining knight wrote:My dad the uber old school whovian that he is thinks river song is
Spoiler:
I was listening to a Doctor Who podcast and they came up with the same thing. That would be rather cool.

It's not the Rani. The Doctor would recognise her as all Time Lords usually recognise eachother despite regenerations. She needs a set of photo references to recognise the Doctor and he didn't recognise her when he met her in the Library. The Rani is a totally different character with her own agenda. Why would Moffat bring her back as a new character? Also I think she would be rather too obscure to provide an exciting identity-reveal to the younger audience Moffat is clearly aiming for. Similarly it would be equally dull if she turned out to be Romana.

457The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:10 pm

TheeDoctorWhoHasDreads?

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Jherek wrote:
jaydee74 wrote:Yeah. This last episode was pretty good. As for River. Wouldn't the Doctor know her if she was, say his wife or his actual daughter? Even if she's regenerated, wouldn't he know her?

Repeat after me...

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey. The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517

No the whole point of the relationship between River Song and The Doctor is that it's 'out of sequence' In other words the Doctor hasn't experienced his 'first' meeting with River yet (from her point of view) but has experienced his last (her death in the Library). So it's perfectly logical that even if she's his daughter, wife or whatever he wouldn't recognise her as such until the circumstances of her birth or first meeting with him have happened in his (relative) time line. Got it? The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 334450

As I've mentioned before I heartily recomend the novel The Time Traveller's Wife for more of this stuff (it's brilliant).

As to who River is. We won't find out this season if the various interviews with cast and writer are true (apparantly Alex Kingston after shooting these episodes still has no idea). I'm not sure Moffat will ever fully explain who she is. It might be left to a future Who writer to provide that particular spoiler.

And IMHO that's how it should be. Isn't she a far more interesting character and concept as long as we don't know? Any reveal at this stage will ruin the mystery and glamour.


I agree!! That's the fun of watching episodes with River Song, you never quite know who she is and what her motives are. But you do know that she means something to the Doctor.

http://www.twitter.com/theekenye

458The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:41 am

shining knight

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And that means what?

Moffat was fed up with everyone asking him what the number of the new series was and said it was Fnarg in his first column in doctor who monthly. Its kind of stuck as a joke ever since with the fans who read that magazine

459The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:44 am

supervenom

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River Song is.............................................................................a remodified Kamelion. Laughing Laughing Laughing

460The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:56 am

shining knight

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Heh now that one I doubt considering how hated that perticular character is Laughing

461The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:55 pm

shining knight

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speaking of doctor who magazine....

Spoiler:

462The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:43 pm

Jherek

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supervenom wrote:River Song is.............................................................................a remodified Kamelion. The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517 The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517 The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517
The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517 The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517 The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517 The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 29517 Now that would be so beyond uncool it's met itself coming back from uncoolsville and taken up residence in The city of cool. The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Drunken_smilie

463The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:56 pm

Jherek

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Oh and speaking of spoilers The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 334450
Spoiler:

So now we know what Amy's Choice is.

464The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:58 pm

jaydee74

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shining knight wrote:speaking of doctor who magazine....

Spoiler:
I'm not a fan of the teeth.

Jherek wrote:Oh and speaking of spoilers The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 334450
Spoiler:

So now we know what Amy's Choice is.
Shocked
I'm not sure entirely what choice she has to make at this point but I've got a bad feeling already.

465The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Sat May 01, 2010 7:18 pm

Jherek

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OMG just watched Flesh and Stone. One of the best two parters ever. So much to take in. I'll write more about it when I've recovered from it. The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 374983

466The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Sat May 01, 2010 7:22 pm

Foreigner_Man

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^Well, I'm going to be watching 'Time of Angels' tonight. Anything you want to say 'bout it before I watch it?

467The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Sun May 02, 2010 3:03 am

superdoug

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So, I saw the Dalek episode, and I have an all-new theory:

Spoiler:

I dunno. I'm just spitballing. But I think I may be onto a thread of something, here....

468The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Sun May 02, 2010 3:35 am

TheeDoctorWhoHasDreads?

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Jherek wrote:OMG just watched Flesh and Stone. One of the best two parters ever. So much to take in. I'll write more about it when I've recovered from it. The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 374983

Yea, methinks im going to rewatch it just to make sure I didn't miss something. Suspect Shocked

http://www.twitter.com/theekenye

469The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Sun May 02, 2010 2:44 pm

Jherek

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It def needs another viewing. Or two. Superdoug!? I think you're overcomplicating, though your Romana using a Chronal Arch idea could be a good way of bringing her back, I just don't think Moffat is going in that direction.

Spoiler:

I think the opening of the Pandorica is gonna be a kind of crisis on infinite whoniverses and that the Crack in Time is a major mcguffin that'll reboot the Whoniverse to a pre RTD state.

470The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Sun May 02, 2010 2:45 pm

Jherek

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Foreigner_Man wrote:^Well, I'm going to be watching 'Time of Angels' tonight. Anything you want to say 'bout it before I watch it?

Obviously...'don't blink...and don't look them in the eyes' The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 334450

Oh and watch out for the cameo by Mike Skinner AKA indie rock/rap star 'The Streets'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UGtlUMMkOU&feature=channel
as the guy with the psychedelic lipstick in the pre credit sequence.

471The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Mon May 03, 2010 11:20 am

jaydee74

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Jherek wrote:It def needs another viewing. Or two. Superdoug!? I think you're overcomplicating, though your Romana using a Chronal Arch idea could be a good way of bringing her back, I just don't think Moffat is going in that direction.

Spoiler:

I think the opening of the Pandorica is gonna be a kind of crisis on infinite whoniverses and that the Crack in Time is a major mcguffin that'll reboot the Whoniverse to a pre RTD state.

That's an interesting theory. I liked this episode and it makes me even more curious as to just who the heck River Song is. I've been looking forward to the vampire episode since I saw the sneak peek of it and Amy Pond is quickly becoming one of my favorite companions.

472The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Mon May 03, 2010 11:34 am

TheeDoctorWhoHasDreads?

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After a second viewing of this episode, its by far the best ep of the season. So much of the overall plot with the "cracks" in the universe really gets fleshed out in this ep. Plus the Angels are still creepy, if not creepier when they use the voices of their victims.

But one word kept popping up in my mind while watching this ep both times..... Retcon.

http://www.twitter.com/theekenye

473The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Mon May 03, 2010 2:58 pm

jaydee74

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TheeDoctorWhoHasDreads? wrote:After a second viewing of this episode, its by far the best ep of the season. So much of the overall plot with the "cracks" in the universe really gets fleshed out in this ep. Plus the Angels are still creepy, if not creepier when they use the voices of their victims.

But one word kept popping up in my mind while watching this ep both times..... Retcon.
I was thinking more or less the same word.

474The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Mon May 03, 2010 6:38 pm

Jherek

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I may be right out on a limb here but I've just put some things together that have been nagging at me about this season so far and come up with a theory.

It started with that scene where the Doctor escapes the Angels by slipping out of his jacket. Knowing Moffat never writes a scene without a purpose I wondered why the Doctor needed to lose his jacket at this point in the plot.
Next scene he leaves Amy with the soldier/clerics and then comes back briefly to tell her to remember what he said to her when she was seven? Why was he wearing his jacket? He'd lost it to the Angels and at no stage throughout the rest of the episode was he wearing it. Except there.

Continuity error? from this production team? I think not.

There's some wibbly wobbly timey wimey shennanigans going on here. Look at that scene. The Doctor's hair is untousled, he's wearing the jacket and the unexpectedness of it all is jarring. There's also suddenly more echo on his voice, and a forehead kiss that means those two or three lines suddenly mean a lot more to him.

With me so far? Now, think back to episode one.

After defeating the Atraxi the Doctor gets in the Tardis and leaves nineteen year-old Amy in the garden. Then we cut to her sitting on her suitcase in the same spot when she's seven, but not in the nighttime, in daylight. The Tardis engines sound and she looks up with a smile on her face. Then we get another jump cut edit to adult Amy in bed, waking when she hears the Tardis engines.

So, did the Doc return to Amy when she was seven and she just forgot all about it? Or is she having a dream about waiting for him as a child, and that dream is inspired by the reality of the Tardis making its (brakes on) noise as it appears outside her bedroom.

On first viewing that seems to be the case but...taken with that anomalous continuity jump in this weeks episode I think this is what's going on -

In the season finale the Doctor will end up jumping back into Amy's timeline and planting the seeds of something in her head, to help deal with whatever's coming. And the crack is either the consequence of that meddling, or the problem that he needs to solve by doing so.

And this ties into the 'fairy tale' alternate reality that Amy's over-active imagination has created. 'The Raggedy Doctor Universe' if you like.


And the clue is -

How do you know it's a duck pond if there aren't any ducks in it?

Episode one -

Doctor: And WHAT is that?"
Amy : It's a duck pond"
Doctor: Then why aren't there any ducks in it?

Amy: There's never been any ducks
Doctor: Then how do you know it's a duck pond?
Amy: Is it important?"
Doctor: I don't know. Why would I know?


Is it that there's never been any ducks? Like there's never been any Daleks? Like there's never been any clerics watching Amy in the woods?

When Amy finally gets back into The Tardis, she asks The Doctor why he picked her out of everyone. He tells her there's no reason and that it's just that he's lonely and needs a bit of fun. She asks if that's all and he says yes it is. Right in front of a graphic depiction of the crack in her wall on the Tardis display monitor.

He knows something here that he's not letting on, and it's very possible his time away has not just been spent on a quick trip around the moon.

So when they're in the forest and things are about to start getting erased from history there's this little exchange...
Episode Five

Doctor: Remember what I told you when I was seven.
Amy: What did you tell me?
Doctor: That's not the point


So what is the point?

Is it that the fact she doesn't remember and nor do we. We haven't heard him give her any advice when she was seven. He's yet to go back and give it.

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey. I'm loving this season!

475The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 Empty Re: The official; Doctor who thread Mon May 03, 2010 9:10 pm

Foreigner_Man

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^Jherek, those are some excellent points.
The official; Doctor who thread - Page 19 W7iob4
So he took her with him to keep an eye on her & see how much wibbly-wobbly stuff is going on? Could the Daleks be behind all this since they escaped in VotD? Maybe the tried to get back to the Time War or the Medusa cascade, with dreadful consequences (the crack in the wall?). Or maybe they went off to open the Pandorica..

Also, to answer one of Jherek's questions
Spoiler:

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