I am a New Avenger

^But he did it right? So, it shouldn't be impossible for Spidey to be able to look past Wolverine's actions should it?

Batman25JM wrote:^But he did it right? So, it shouldn't be impossible for Spidey to be able to look past Wolverine's actions should it?

That's Wade's argument

But to chime in on that one, I agree with Wade that there should be some repercussions to Wolvie's actions. But eventually, I see Pete chalking it up to Wolverine being Wolverine. He won't like it, but he won't leave the team over it either.. mainly because Spidey is a pushover

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^But he did it right? So, it shouldn't be impossible for Spidey to be able to look past Wolverine's actions should it?

That's Wade's argument

But to chime in on that one, I agree with Wade that there should be some repercussions to Wolvie's actions. But eventually, I see Pete chalking it up to Wolverine being Wolverine. He won't like it, but he won't leave the team over it either.. mainly because Spidey is a pushover

Yeah, I know it was Wade's argument, but I used my weak argument with you to try to strengthen my argument with him.

BENDIS VIA TWITTER

one more BIG tease tomorrow. but a reminder. this is not the full tram. more surprises to come in the book itself. hee!

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:That said, this is not even my point, my point being: a new team of Avengers will be formed. Wolverine will be on it. AT THE SAME TIME, Wolverine will be on X-Force.

Well we don't know whether X-Force will even be around after Second Coming, which starts this month. So you can't say for sure that he'll be on both at the same time.

But Wade what's your main gripe here? I tried to answer some of your points, but seems like this conversations is going off on random tangents and I don't feel like going in circles. So just wondering what your main problem is.

My main point is that it seems like a nonsensical move, to include Wolverine on a public team like the Avengers when he is on a team like X-Force. I'm talking about after Siege (though it does apply to before Siege but I'm avoiding that aspect of the discussion). I am going off the premise that X-Force will still exist after Siege because there is no observable reason for X-Force to be cancelled since the storylines running in them are no where near completion. One says X-Force is black ops, but X-Force is known to SHIELD and various other agencies and other heroes and villains (thank you Red Hulk: Code Red vs. X-Force). So their existence is far from secret. So, how can you have someone like Wolverine on a public team that systematically takes orders to kill people from Cyclops, especially when such kills are, in effect, illegal? How can superheroes like Spider-man and the others, especially if they found out about it, how can they deal with that? How can they deal with someone who is currently a member of a kill squad beingon their team? It has nothing to do with Wolvie's past, since they are under the impression that he does not kill unless he absolutely has to, yet X-Force shows that he kills rooms full of people when he needs to and sometimes enjoys it (thank you X-Force: Ain't no dog). How can the superheroes deal with that, especially when they are unhappy with the idea of killing even one low life criminal (like Hawkeye and his reaction to Mockingbird's rape and her subsequent killing of her rapist, like Spidey currently and his reaction to Drew wanting to kill the guy that was messing with her mind (she's a spy and has killed before so why would Spidey not excuse the kill as something she does, since that is what is being boucned around this thread about Logan. It doesn't add up)? How would the public react to the fact that Wolvie was both part of the Avengers and part of a team of killing mutants that kill people that are considered problematic for mutants by Cyclops only? Cyclops has his targets on all the people Bastion raised. All these guys are very public, some of them political figures raised from the dead. If they being targeted is excused, then how can you excuse Hawkeye wanting to kill Norman with the defense of "he's a public figure"? Sure, I can understand it as being a bad move strategically, but as a blow against good morals, it amounts to the same thing going on in X-Force.

In short, how can the public and other superheroes deal with Wolverine being a very public Avenger, when he is on a team that is not that big of secret and systematically committs acts that they have all been very much against both in the past and present? Yes, in the real world, it makes sense to put Wolvie in to cash in on his fame, I'm not disputing that at all, but in a comic book sense, Wolvie being on a public team (the Avengers are and will be even more so, a public team: Think New Avengers before Civil War famous) doing what he does with X-Force seems nonsensical (and thus, why I laughed at the move and regarded it as being silly).

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I don't know, I know there were some repercussions, but they seemed to get over it damn quick. Now, granted, I didn't read EVER single book dealing with this, but I read a great deal of things, and I just didn't see any reason for them to make up like they did.

Dude, they dealt with the fallout of those 2 stories for almost 2 years before IC.

Not to sound dickish, but you have a very thin argument here.

I have to agree with Derek on this. They have been dealing with the reprecussions of Diana's actions for the longest time now. I'm constantly reminded of the scene where they are on the moon in the destroyed JLA headquaters, arguing over her actions and pretty much at the point of going their seperate ways. This scene is most memorable due to Batman telling Superman 'The last time he inspired anyone was when he was dead'. Such emotion and anger from the discussion of Diana's actions and it was not the last. Her actions not only drove a wedge between her and the rest, it also added on to the problems and issues they were having with each other. Her actions were also one of the things that led to Kal-L coming out of retirement because he deemed her act so heinous. To this day the heroes make reference to Diana's actions. I can easily bet that they will make reference to it again (thank you Cry for Justice) and the heroes will show much issue they take with Diana's actions.

Batman25JM wrote:

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^But he did it right? So, it shouldn't be impossible for Spidey to be able to look past Wolverine's actions should it?

That's Wade's argument

But to chime in on that one, I agree with Wade that there should be some repercussions to Wolvie's actions. But eventually, I see Pete chalking it up to Wolverine being Wolverine. He won't like it, but he won't leave the team over it either.. mainly because Spidey is a pushover

Yeah, I know it was Wade's argument, but I used my weak argument with you to try to strengthen my argument with him.

Diana's actions was a one time thing (and they still threw a fit despite the circumstances under whish it was done). Wolvie is currently killing rooms full of bad guys at the order of Cyclops, by all intents and purposes, just another superhero. I think the superheroes would take issue with killing a room full of Hydra agents or Aim agents. Hence why Nick Fury has his own little team of soldiers to fight Hydra and is keeping the nature of his activites a secret from the other heroes. If no one had an issue killing "evil soldier bad guys (like AIM, like Hydra, like the Purifiers, like your average militant terrorist group), then Fury would have gotten some stronger heroes. he could have swung a cosmic heroes most likely if he wanted (get Mr. Fantastic to get call Silver Surfer like Reed did in the Cable/Deadpool series).

There is so much evidence in past issues of marvel comics and current ones that make this move laughable and nonsensical. I think more than anything, this is what is making me wonder. How they think it is a sensical idea when it obviously is not, even with the current state of things that Joe Q and bendis have created (essentially, soft retcons all over the place to make their vision of the Marvel universe work when it clashes with, well, everything before them).


For the record, I'm not trying to get on anyone's case or anything. I'm just explaining why I found the move to be silly from one standpoint. Financially, I can understand. Whore out dat Wolverine and make him turn tricks: He's their best ho at the time, but from a comic book standpoint (in terms of writing and plots and continuity) it doesn't make sense.

well look at that an actual surprise!

sort of

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

I'm sort of with Wade on this one, but the other way around.

Wolverine has been a killer in the past, sure, but... he's also been an X-Man and a member of the Avengers. The fact that he was put on X-Force by Cyclops is laughable.

You're a local in the 616. You see a golden kid and a white girl with a black birthmark around her eye kill some dudes in front of your apartment. Whatever. Then, you see a short burly man with metal claws and a mask with pointed... ears?... kill some people. That's Wolverine. You KNOW that's Wolverine. Wolverine's gone rogue? Then you turn on Fox news the next day, and there's Wolverine alongside the X-Men, and then on CNN you see him with the Avengers. Sure, it's the outlaw Avengers, but still... you always SECRETLY thought they were the good guys. But he was just outside your apartment killing people. Maybe those Avengers really ARE bad guys, and maybe mutants really ARE a menace. Norman Osborn was right!

Besides, Wolverine's been fighting to control his animalistic side for YEARS. Him being on X-Force is insane, because it's him giving in to being a killer. As I said before, once Cable is back, he needs to take over X-Force. Wolverine needs to start pissing and moaning about this not being the future he wants, and then Cable can step in. It lets Logan return to reforming his ways among the X-Men and Avengers, and it gives X-Force the grizzled old leader they need.

To answer the question of how the Avengers allow Wolverine to be on their team, it's simple. He gets the job done, and when he's on a team, he plays by their rules. When you're an Avenger, acting as an Avenger, you don't piss in the office water cooler. At the same time, they're grown up enough to recognize that there is a side of Wolverine that does... things... that they don't approve of. It doesn't mean he can't be an important part of their group.

But then, that's my big problem with him as an Avenger. He HASN'T been an important part of their group, really. If he's going to continue to be on the team, they need to write him into the team, and not just have him on the book because it looks good for sales and he and Spider-Man can have some funny quips together.

Well, I guess that one's a surprise, he hasn't been an Avenger since the West Coast days has he?

vikoros wrote:

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

Ben and Luke on the same team? And Wolverine and Spidey and Jewel? I honestly don't think I'll be reading this one. So far, not a single character that I truly love, and a very convoluted team, in my mind.

Ben and Luke on the same team? And Wolverine and Spidey and Jewel? I honestly don't think I'll be reading this one. So far, not a single character that I truly love, and a very convoluted team, in my mind.

Bendis said there's going to be more members than what are shown in the Teasers, so while it looks a bit on the convoluted side we probably won't know exactly what the whole deal is until Avengers #1.

I suspect we'll start seeing Avengers Academy teasers next week, c'mon Taskmaster!!!

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:My main point is that it seems like a nonsensical move, to include Wolverine on a public team like the Avengers when he is on a team like X-Force. I'm talking about after Siege (though it does apply to before Siege but I'm avoiding that aspect of the discussion). I am going off the premise that X-Force will still exist after Siege because there is no observable reason for X-Force to be cancelled since the storylines running in them are no where near completion. One says X-Force is black ops, but X-Force is known to SHIELD and various other agencies and other heroes and villains (thank you Red Hulk: Code Red vs. X-Force). So their existence is far from secret. So, how can you have someone like Wolverine on a public team that systematically takes orders to kill people from Cyclops, especially when such kills are, in effect, illegal? How can superheroes like Spider-man and the others, especially if they found out about it, how can they deal with that? How can they deal with someone who is currently a member of a kill squad beingon their team? It has nothing to do with Wolvie's past, since they are under the impression that he does not kill unless he absolutely has to, yet X-Force shows that he kills rooms full of people when he needs to and sometimes enjoys it (thank you X-Force: Ain't no dog). How can the superheroes deal with that, especially when they are unhappy with the idea of killing even one low life criminal (like Hawkeye and his reaction to Mockingbird's rape and her subsequent killing of her rapist, like Spidey currently and his reaction to Drew wanting to kill the guy that was messing with her mind (she's a spy and has killed before so why would Spidey not excuse the kill as something she does, since that is what is being boucned around this thread about Logan. It doesn't add up)? How would the public react to the fact that Wolvie was both part of the Avengers and part of a team of killing mutants that kill people that are considered problematic for mutants by Cyclops only? Cyclops has his targets on all the people Bastion raised. All these guys are very public, some of them political figures raised from the dead. If they being targeted is excused, then how can you excuse Hawkeye wanting to kill Norman with the defense of "he's a public figure"? Sure, I can understand it as being a bad move strategically, but as a blow against good morals, it amounts to the same thing going on in X-Force.

In short, how can the public and other superheroes deal with Wolverine being a very public Avenger, when he is on a team that is not that big of secret and systematically committs acts that they have all been very much against both in the past and present? Yes, in the real world, it makes sense to put Wolvie in to cash in on his fame, I'm not disputing that at all, but in a comic book sense, Wolvie being on a public team (the Avengers are and will be even more so, a public team: Think New Avengers before Civil War famous) doing what he does with X-Force seems nonsensical (and thus, why I laughed at the move and regarded it as being silly).

Wade I'm actually pretty sure that X-Force will not be around post-Second Coming (which is about the same time as post-Siege), at least not in its current form. The events of Second Coming will most likely end the need for a black-ops team like X-Force. Plus I think I remember Kyle and Yost saying that Necrosha is sort of the cap on their run. So one way or another, X-Force either won't be around or will have a drastic change in tone. So when Logan is a "public" Avenger like we're assuming, he very likely will not be on X-Force.

And I just want to say that its not like the other heroes haven't addressed their problems with Wolverine's methods in the past (check the latest issue Weapon X) so the issue has been dealt with. The thing with X-Force is, nobody knows yet about it. Some of the X-Men just found out so literally nobody on the Avengers knows yet. You said SHIELD knows, but SHIELD wasn't around at the time, HAMMER was. So none of the heroes were in the loop intel wise. And even if top intelligence guys like Nick Fury and Steve Rogers find out about it eventually, who's to say they will go out and tell everybody? I doubt they would. I guess I'm saying you should just wait and see how things play out.

vikoros wrote:

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

WTF! That's awesome and worrisome at the same time lol. I've loved what Hickman has been doing with the Fantastic Four so I hope this doesn't alter that in any way. I'm sure he can be on both teams but still. Either way, this should be veeeery interesting...the interactions between Ben and Logan will be worth the price alone.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

vikoros wrote:

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

WTF! That's awesome and worrisome at the same time lol. I've loved what Hickman has been doing with the Fantastic Four so I hope this doesn't alter that in any way. I'm sure he can be on both teams but still. Either way, this should be veeeery interesting...the interactions between Ben and Logan will be worth the price alone.

Agreed!

I'm happy about the Thing.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:My main point is that it seems like a nonsensical move, to include Wolverine on a public team like the Avengers when he is on a team like X-Force. I'm talking about after Siege (though it does apply to before Siege but I'm avoiding that aspect of the discussion). I am going off the premise that X-Force will still exist after Siege because there is no observable reason for X-Force to be cancelled since the storylines running in them are no where near completion. One says X-Force is black ops, but X-Force is known to SHIELD and various other agencies and other heroes and villains (thank you Red Hulk: Code Red vs. X-Force). So their existence is far from secret. So, how can you have someone like Wolverine on a public team that systematically takes orders to kill people from Cyclops, especially when such kills are, in effect, illegal? How can superheroes like Spider-man and the others, especially if they found out about it, how can they deal with that? How can they deal with someone who is currently a member of a kill squad beingon their team? It has nothing to do with Wolvie's past, since they are under the impression that he does not kill unless he absolutely has to, yet X-Force shows that he kills rooms full of people when he needs to and sometimes enjoys it (thank you X-Force: Ain't no dog). How can the superheroes deal with that, especially when they are unhappy with the idea of killing even one low life criminal (like Hawkeye and his reaction to Mockingbird's rape and her subsequent killing of her rapist, like Spidey currently and his reaction to Drew wanting to kill the guy that was messing with her mind (she's a spy and has killed before so why would Spidey not excuse the kill as something she does, since that is what is being boucned around this thread about Logan. It doesn't add up)? How would the public react to the fact that Wolvie was both part of the Avengers and part of a team of killing mutants that kill people that are considered problematic for mutants by Cyclops only? Cyclops has his targets on all the people Bastion raised. All these guys are very public, some of them political figures raised from the dead. If they being targeted is excused, then how can you excuse Hawkeye wanting to kill Norman with the defense of "he's a public figure"? Sure, I can understand it as being a bad move strategically, but as a blow against good morals, it amounts to the same thing going on in X-Force.

In short, how can the public and other superheroes deal with Wolverine being a very public Avenger, when he is on a team that is not that big of secret and systematically committs acts that they have all been very much against both in the past and present? Yes, in the real world, it makes sense to put Wolvie in to cash in on his fame, I'm not disputing that at all, but in a comic book sense, Wolvie being on a public team (the Avengers are and will be even more so, a public team: Think New Avengers before Civil War famous) doing what he does with X-Force seems nonsensical (and thus, why I laughed at the move and regarded it as being silly).

Wade I'm actually pretty sure that X-Force will not be around post-Second Coming (which is about the same time as post-Siege), at least not in its current form. The events of Second Coming will most likely end the need for a black-ops team like X-Force. Plus I think I remember Kyle and Yost saying that Necrosha is sort of the cap on their run. So one way or another, X-Force either won't be around or will have a drastic change in tone. So when Logan is a "public" Avenger like we're assuming, he very likely will not be on X-Force.

It won't be in the same form but it will most likely be around Bastion is still running around and that storyline has not been dealt with. How does Second Coming do away with a need for X-Force? Will all the purifiers and all the people Bastion raised suddnely disappear? If so, okay then. If not, then you can't make that claim. And it seems unlikely that they would all up and disappear and all threats to mutantkind that warrented X-Force will suddenly vanish. It seems unlikely that Cyclops's thinking and approach to things will suddenly change and he will be all "no killing guys!". I just can't fathom it. Moreover, Kyle and Yost said their run is ending but the title itself has not been said to be stopped. As for it's form, aside from Deadpool being said to be added, nothing has been confirmed. Cable may be joining but he may die as well. It's safe to assume it will be around. And X-Force sells well enough to be around. And there hasn't been any indication that Wolverine won't be on X-Force in the future.

Bigtymin504 wrote:
And I just want to say that its not like the other heroes haven't addressed their problems with Wolverine's methods in the past (check the latest issue Weapon X) so the issue has been dealt with. The thing with X-Force is, nobody knows yet about it. Some of the X-Men just found out so literally nobody on the Avengers knows yet. You said SHIELD knows, but SHIELD wasn't around at the time, HAMMER was. So none of the heroes were in the loop intel wise. And even if top intelligence guys like Nick Fury and Steve Rogers find out about it eventually, who's to say they will go out and tell everybody? I doubt they would.

Recall:
Agent Ali Morales was the S.H.I.E.L.D. agent that responded to the first Purifier massacre committed by X-Force. This is from X-Force but if you don't believe me, apparently Marvel does:
http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8993.x-force~colon~_after_the_war

That's Kyle and Yost laying out the plot that was in the comic. SHIELD was around when X-Force was up to their activities.

I'd post some more convicing scans but this should be enough. SHIELD was around and became aware of X-Force's activities. It started with X-23 but they became aware of the whole deal. HAMMER became aware of them through all this.

And as Red Hulk Code red (I just mentioned it) shows, Red Hulk is aware of them. Punisher, Deadpool, Elektra, Silver Sable, Doc Samson and so forth know about X-Force. SWORD knows about X-Force. Bastion knows about X-Force, ergo, all the people he raised know about it, ergo, all the people they are involved with know about X-Force, ergo alot of the purifiers know about X-Force. Alot of people know about X-Force.

Bigtymin504 wrote:
I guess I'm saying you should just wait and see how things play out.

That's why I merely laughed at it, as opposed to swearing it off and refusing to even check it out. I will check it out, but I still find much of this amusing since things at this point, don't add up. There's nothing different than what I am doing from what people do all the time when a story or plot does not make sense at first. They wonder and make comments. If it becomes elucidated later, then all is well, but there is nothing wrong with noting the things that don't make sense in all of this. It's much like how people applaud and laud the choices: If I can't say assume something bad about this, how can you or anyone else assume something good? It goes both ways....

Anyways, I have no problem with Wolvie on the team but the whole deal should be addressed. It will bother me a good deal if they ignore it and act like no one knows when a bunch of people know.

vikoros wrote:

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

As someone said before, the back and forth between Ben, Logan will be legendary. I demand Iron Fist on this title now. Just imagine: Spidey, Wolv, Ben, Cage, and Iron Fist? Written by Bendis? My word.

Mnemosis wrote:I'm sort of with Wade on this one, but the other way around.

Wolverine has been a killer in the past, sure, but... he's also been an X-Man and a member of the Avengers. The fact that he was put on X-Force by Cyclops is laughable.

You're a local in the 616. You see a golden kid and a white girl with a black birthmark around her eye kill some dudes in front of your apartment. Whatever. Then, you see a short burly man with metal claws and a mask with pointed... ears?... kill some people. That's Wolverine. You KNOW that's Wolverine. Wolverine's gone rogue? Then you turn on Fox news the next day, and there's Wolverine alongside the X-Men, and then on CNN you see him with the Avengers. Sure, it's the outlaw Avengers, but still... you always SECRETLY thought they were the good guys. But he was just outside your apartment killing people. Maybe those Avengers really ARE bad guys, and maybe mutants really ARE a menace. Norman Osborn was right!

Besides, Wolverine's been fighting to control his animalistic side for YEARS. Him being on X-Force is insane, because it's him giving in to being a killer. As I said before, once Cable is back, he needs to take over X-Force. Wolverine needs to start pissing and moaning about this not being the future he wants, and then Cable can step in. It lets Logan return to reforming his ways among the X-Men and Avengers, and it gives X-Force the grizzled old leader they need.

To answer the question of how the Avengers allow Wolverine to be on their team, it's simple. He gets the job done, and when he's on a team, he plays by their rules. When you're an Avenger, acting as an Avenger, you don't piss in the office water cooler. At the same time, they're grown up enough to recognize that there is a side of Wolverine that does... things... that they don't approve of. It doesn't mean he can't be an important part of their group.

But then, that's my big problem with him as an Avenger. He HASN'T been an important part of their group, really. If he's going to continue to be on the team, they need to write him into the team, and not just have him on the book because it looks good for sales and he and Spider-Man can have some funny quips together.

Indeed, especially about the part with Cable possibly taking over.

I disagree with that. Mostly because I would like Cable to be without life's spark ASAP. There is a lot of speculating right now of course because we only have a couple issues in a lot of titles before this is supposed to start happening. I would like to find out why Ben Grimm is joining the team. That is the one that is a mystery to me. I know marvel wants to keep the top 10 status of Avenger books, but I personally don't like Spidey, or Wolverine being part of the Avengers. Just seems to JLA if they "must" put all the big characters in one book.

vikoros wrote:

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

So Thing will be on both teams? FF and Avengers?

So Thing will be on both teams? FF and Avengers?

That's what it's looking like, he is still wearing his FF trunks even in that image, plus Jonathan Hickman hasn't made any mention of taking Ben off of the FF book, and with the dynamic he's got going on over there I'd call it a crime if he was forced to.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:It won't be in the same form but it will most likely be around Bastion is still running around and that storyline has not been dealt with. How does Second Coming do away with a need for X-Force? Will all the purifiers and all the people Bastion raised suddnely disappear? If so, okay then. If not, then you can't make that claim. And it seems unlikely that they would all up and disappear and all threats to mutantkind that warrented X-Force will suddenly vanish. It seems unlikely that Cyclops's thinking and approach to things will suddenly change and he will be all "no killing guys!". I just can't fathom it. Moreover, Kyle and Yost said their run is ending but the title itself has not been said to be stopped. As for it's form, aside from Deadpool being said to be added, nothing has been confirmed. Cable may be joining but he may die as well. It's safe to assume it will be around. And X-Force sells well enough to be around. And there hasn't been any indication that Wolverine won't be on X-Force in the future.

Well Bastion is actually going to be a major part of Second Coming, so his storyline could very well be resolved there. I think Kyle and Yost have said as much too. The landscape of the X-verse has been said to become radically different post-SC, so the need for a black-ops X-Force might not be necessary, or at least their mission statement would be altered. With different creators, different X-verse tone, different villains, I think its most logical to assume that X-Force, if it still exists, will be radically different from what is it now.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:Recall:
Agent Ali Morales was the S.H.I.E.L.D. agent that responded to the first Purifier massacre committed by X-Force. This is from X-Force but if you don't believe me, apparently Marvel does:
http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8993.x-force~colon~_after_the_war

That's Kyle and Yost laying out the plot that was in the comic. SHIELD was around when X-Force was up to their activities.

I'd post some more convicing scans but this should be enough. SHIELD was around and became aware of X-Force's activities. It started with X-23 but they became aware of the whole deal. HAMMER became aware of them through all this.

And as Red Hulk Code red (I just mentioned it) shows, Red Hulk is aware of them. Punisher, Deadpool, Elektra, Silver Sable, Doc Samson and so forth know about X-Force. SWORD knows about X-Force. Bastion knows about X-Force, ergo, all the people he raised know about it, ergo, all the people they are involved with know about X-Force, ergo alot of the purifiers know about X-Force. Alot of people know about X-Force.

Ah forgot about Agent Morales and that special SHIELD division, good call. Everything did transition to HAMMER though so who knows where the intell went and if anyone from the new guard will see it. As far as all the names you listed, its very different to know X-Force exists than to know what they actually do. And still, no Avengers have been shown to know anything about it yet.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:That's why I merely laughed at it, as opposed to swearing it off and refusing to even check it out. I will check it out, but I still find much of this amusing since things at this point, don't add up. There's nothing different than what I am doing from what people do all the time when a story or plot does not make sense at first. They wonder and make comments. If it becomes elucidated later, then all is well, but there is nothing wrong with noting the things that don't make sense in all of this. It's much like how people applaud and laud the choices: If I can't say assume something bad about this, how can you or anyone else assume something good? It goes both ways....

Anyways, I have no problem with Wolvie on the team but the whole deal should be addressed. It will bother me a good deal if they ignore it and act like no one knows when a bunch of people know.

I hear ya buddy, at this point its just a wait and see issue I guess. It all depends on if its still around and if they all find out about it, or more importantly, who finds out.

Anyway, we haven't had a good debate like this since the Marvel boards lol. We usually agree on most things but always great to discuss stuff like this with you.

vikoros wrote:

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

Now this is new! This excites me, always a Ben fan as well. Like Bigtymin said, can't wait for the Logan-Ben interactions, as well as the ones w/ Thing, Spidey, and Luke!

Fresh03 wrote:

So Thing will be on both teams? FF and Avengers?

That's what it's looking like, he is still wearing his FF trunks even in that image, plus Jonathan Hickman hasn't made any mention of taking Ben off of the FF book, and with the dynamic he's got going on over there I'd call it a crime if he was forced to.

I don't know. New Avengers might be my goto team. They look awesome so far.

BTW, Immonen's rendition of Thing in that teaser is awesome. If nothing else, this book will look great.

So far, I'm seeing:

Luke Cage
Jessica Jones
Spider-Man
Wolverine
Thing

That's a pretty awesome team. Question though. Isn't having Thing and Luke Cage a bit redundant?