I am a New Avenger

jaydee74 wrote:So far, I'm seeing:

Luke Cage
Jessica Jones
Spider-Man
Wolverine
Thing

That's a pretty awesome team. Question though. Isn't having Thing and Luke Cage a bit redundant?

Sorta lol, but Thing is A LOT stronger than Luke.

Figured as much.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:It won't be in the same form but it will most likely be around Bastion is still running around and that storyline has not been dealt with. How does Second Coming do away with a need for X-Force? Will all the purifiers and all the people Bastion raised suddnely disappear? If so, okay then. If not, then you can't make that claim. And it seems unlikely that they would all up and disappear and all threats to mutantkind that warrented X-Force will suddenly vanish. It seems unlikely that Cyclops's thinking and approach to things will suddenly change and he will be all "no killing guys!". I just can't fathom it. Moreover, Kyle and Yost said their run is ending but the title itself has not been said to be stopped. As for it's form, aside from Deadpool being said to be added, nothing has been confirmed. Cable may be joining but he may die as well. It's safe to assume it will be around. And X-Force sells well enough to be around. And there hasn't been any indication that Wolverine won't be on X-Force in the future.

Well Bastion is actually going to be a major part of Second Coming, so his storyline could very well be resolved there. I think Kyle and Yost have said as much too. The landscape of the X-verse has been said to become radically different post-SC, so the need for a black-ops X-Force might not be necessary, or at least their mission statement would be altered. With different creators, different X-verse tone, different villains, I think its most logical to assume that X-Force, if it still exists, will be radically different from what is it now.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:Recall:
Agent Ali Morales was the S.H.I.E.L.D. agent that responded to the first Purifier massacre committed by X-Force. This is from X-Force but if you don't believe me, apparently Marvel does:
http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8993.x-force~colon~_after_the_war

That's Kyle and Yost laying out the plot that was in the comic. SHIELD was around when X-Force was up to their activities.

I'd post some more convicing scans but this should be enough. SHIELD was around and became aware of X-Force's activities. It started with X-23 but they became aware of the whole deal. HAMMER became aware of them through all this.

And as Red Hulk Code red (I just mentioned it) shows, Red Hulk is aware of them. Punisher, Deadpool, Elektra, Silver Sable, Doc Samson and so forth know about X-Force. SWORD knows about X-Force. Bastion knows about X-Force, ergo, all the people he raised know about it, ergo, all the people they are involved with know about X-Force, ergo alot of the purifiers know about X-Force. Alot of people know about X-Force.

Ah forgot about Agent Morales and that special SHIELD division, good call. Everything did transition to HAMMER though so who knows where the intell went and if anyone from the new guard will see it. As far as all the names you listed, its very different to know X-Force exists than to know what they actually do. And still, no Avengers have been shown to know anything about it yet.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:That's why I merely laughed at it, as opposed to swearing it off and refusing to even check it out. I will check it out, but I still find much of this amusing since things at this point, don't add up. There's nothing different than what I am doing from what people do all the time when a story or plot does not make sense at first. They wonder and make comments. If it becomes elucidated later, then all is well, but there is nothing wrong with noting the things that don't make sense in all of this. It's much like how people applaud and laud the choices: If I can't say assume something bad about this, how can you or anyone else assume something good? It goes both ways....

Anyways, I have no problem with Wolvie on the team but the whole deal should be addressed. It will bother me a good deal if they ignore it and act like no one knows when a bunch of people know.

I hear ya buddy, at this point its just a wait and see issue I guess. It all depends on if its still around and if they all find out about it, or more importantly, who finds out.

Anyway, we haven't had a good debate like this since the Marvel boards lol. We usually agree on most things but always great to discuss stuff like this with you.

I'll leave this at: We'll see lol. I hope that Marvel does address this. I think that if Wolvie stayed, it would make for a good storyline, possibly an interesting crossover:

Spidey: Wolvie, why are you dressed like...oh my gosh! Look at all these dead people!!!



And indeed. debating with you is always a pleasure.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:So far, I'm seeing:

Luke Cage
Jessica Jones
Spider-Man
Wolverine
Thing

That's a pretty awesome team. Question though. Isn't having Thing and Luke Cage a bit redundant?

Sorta lol, but Thing is A LOT stronger than Luke.

Indeed. Thing is Hulk league, while Luke is some ways below that. In any case, given that Bendis is writing this, this team, loaded with personality, suits him best. And I can see Thing pulling a double shift with FF and the Avengers. I think of the Avengers as more of a job for him and the FF (and their adventures) as a family outing ( which isn't too far from the truth ). I'm more curious about the other heavy hitters (if any) will show up and the status of the more classic members. Overall, the possible banter with just these members alone is making this seem interesting. That said, I DEMAND SOME IRON FIST UP IN THERE!!!!! (that sounded dirty, I know ).

Yeah Iron Fist is a must! A team lead by Luke Cage makes all the sense in the world for Danny Rand to join.

Luke is more of a "regular" muscle while Thing is sort of a "bigger than life" titan, like Hulk and Juggernaut. Also, Luke offers leadership, street wise and strategy while Ben brings (besides being strong, like Luke) heart and his experience as a team player, and like Cage coming from the streets. All in all, the team members so far are all in either a good friendship or can work greatly with each other on the same level (especially Luke, Peter and Ben. Logan just switches to that part of his personality, and Jessica been a "Street level" player for many years after quitting from being a superhero).

Tomer Soiker wrote:Luke is more of a "regular" muscle while Thing is sort of a "bigger than life" titan, like Hulk and Juggernaut. Also, Luke offers leadership, street wise and strategy while Ben brings (besides being strong, like Luke) heart and his experience as a team player, and like Cage coming from the streets. All in all, the team members so far are all in either a good friendship or can work greatly with each other on the same level (especially Luke, Peter and Ben. Logan just switches to that part of his personality, and Jessica been a "Street level" player for many years after quitting from being a superhero).

Too true. That said, I want to see She-Hulk on this team as well. As a former Avenger, someone who gets along with these people, and one of the best female characters in terms of personality, I think she'd make an awesome addition to the team. She'd bring a muscle with serious fighting skills to the team. I need to go find Bendis and blackmail pester him to make this happen (along with Iron Fist).

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Tomer Soiker wrote:Luke is more of a "regular" muscle while Thing is sort of a "bigger than life" titan, like Hulk and Juggernaut. Also, Luke offers leadership, street wise and strategy while Ben brings (besides being strong, like Luke) heart and his experience as a team player, and like Cage coming from the streets. All in all, the team members so far are all in either a good friendship or can work greatly with each other on the same level (especially Luke, Peter and Ben. Logan just switches to that part of his personality, and Jessica been a "Street level" player for many years after quitting from being a superhero).

Too true. That said, I want to see She-Hulk on this team as well. As a former Avenger, someone who gets along with these people, and one of the best female characters in terms of personality, I think she'd make an awesome addition to the team. She'd bring a muscle with serious fighting skills to the team. I need to go find Bendis and blackmail pester him to make this happen (along with Iron Fist).

I would love to see She-Hulk on the main Avengers team with Thor, Cap, Iron Man, etc. They need some more muscle if they're gonna take on the Earth-shattering threats.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:
Diana's actions was a one time thing (and they still threw a fit despite the circumstances under whish it was done). Wolvie is currently killing rooms full of bad guys at the order of Cyclops, by all intents and purposes, just another superhero. I think the superheroes would take issue with killing a room full of Hydra agents or Aim agents. Hence why Nick Fury has his own little team of soldiers to fight Hydra and is keeping the nature of his activites a secret from the other heroes. If no one had an issue killing "evil soldier bad guys (like AIM, like Hydra, like the Purifiers, like your average militant terrorist group), then Fury would have gotten some stronger heroes. he could have swung a cosmic heroes most likely if he wanted (get Mr. Fantastic to get call Silver Surfer like Reed did in the Cable/Deadpool series).

I've grown weary of our debate, and I don't want to continue any longer. I think it's about time for the "agree to disagree" post (and frankly I don't disagree with everything you are arguing, I just don't fully agree). However, I would like to point out that the reason that Fury gathered his Secret Warriors is because no one knew of their existence and therefore he knew he could trust them and that they weren't Skrulls. That's why he's still using them. The Skrulls might not be the threat they were, but he's a cautious man.

vikoros wrote:

Always a fan of my blue-eyed Ben.

Sweet Christmas that's awesome. It does make we wonder though, if that picture of all the heroes for The Heroic Age was indeed a picture of a bunch of Avengers. From that picture the only characters that haven't been announced as being on a team are Gorilla-Man, Black Widow, and Beast. I can definitely see Black Widow on the Secret Avengers, I can see Beast on really any team, and even though I don't know much about him I think Gorilla-Man could be on New or Secret.

I'm too hoping for Iron Fist to be on the team. I want him, Daredevil (even though I know it won't happen), and Mockingbird on the team really badly. I'd also LOVE beast on the New team. It'd be cool to have Wolvie and Beast on the same Avengers team.

Mnemosis wrote:
Ben and Luke on the same team? And Wolverine and Spidey and Jewel? I honestly don't think I'll be reading this one. So far, not a single character that I truly love, and a very convoluted team, in my mind.

Who would you like on the team?

hrdwrkngXsoldier wrote:I disagree with that. Mostly because I would like Cable to be without life's spark ASAP. There is a lot of speculating right now of course because we only have a couple issues in a lot of titles before this is supposed to start happening. I would like to find out why Ben Grimm is joining the team. That is the one that is a mystery to me. I know marvel wants to keep the top 10 status of Avenger books, but I personally don't like Spidey, or Wolverine being part of the Avengers. Just seems to JLA if they "must" put all the big characters in one book.

I think that it's good that they have a few different teams then. With The Avengers you'll have a more classic team.

Bigtymin504 wrote:BTW, Immonen's rendition of Thing in that teaser is awesome. If nothing else, this book will look great.

Completely agreed. Ben looks fantastic, and Immonen is a hell of an artist.

Well alright, I love that Ben is on the team. Now bring on Songbird an Fat Cobra.

Bigtymin504 wrote:Yeah Iron Fist is a must! A team lead by Luke Cage makes all the sense in the world for Danny Rand to join.

Add Iron Fist on this team and I am so on board

Tomer Soiker wrote:Luke is more of a "regular" muscle while Thing is sort of a "bigger than life" titan, like Hulk and Juggernaut. Also, Luke offers leadership, street wise and strategy while Ben brings (besides being strong, like Luke) heart and his experience as a team player, and like Cage coming from the streets. All in all, the team members so far are all in either a good friendship or can work greatly with each other on the same level (especially Luke, Peter and Ben. Logan just switches to that part of his personality, and Jessica been a "Street level" player for many years after quitting from being a superhero).

Makes sense. I think this team is going to be incredibly awesome and needs a better name than just "New" Avengers. If the team that Thor, Cap and Iron Man are called "Mighty" Avengers then this team should just be called The Avengers.

I hope the whole first arc is Ben, Luke, and Logan playing poker while Peter watches.

Bigtymin504 wrote:I hope the whole first arc is Ben, Luke, and Logan playing poker while Peter watches.

Sign me up on that!

I don't understand relaunching a title called "New Avengers" when basically it has the SAME ROSTER as before
and then calling it NEW AVENGERS once again...I'd much rather prefer they keep the numbering as is.

I mean, the artistic team is still Benids and Immomen! Don't they usually at least relaunch a title with a NEW creative team. The irony is palpable.

AND if ANYTHING, it serves as a perfect dropping off point for me
looking to trim my pull list and all the Avengersness is stacking up

I guess the reasoning for the new renumbering is because the whole Avengers like is being relaunched so they decided, new direction, new team and new roster. So new numbering.

jaydee74 wrote:I guess the reasoning for the new renumbering is because the whole Avengers like is being relaunched so they decided, new direction, new team and new roster. So new numbering.

Yeah, I get it. I understand its a new era for the Avengers.
Just the whole NEW New Avengers Volume 2 is cracking me up

when marketing matters more than the story
i guess that's just reality

TheBrownLantern wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:I guess the reasoning for the new renumbering is because the whole Avengers like is being relaunched so they decided, new direction, new team and new roster. So new numbering.

Yeah, I get it. I understand its a new era for the Avengers.
Just the whole NEW New Avengers Volume 2 is cracking me up

when marketing matters more than the story
i guess that's just reality

It's both story and marketing motivated. The entire tone of the Marvel Universe is changing from what its been the past few years. No more heroes vs heroes, no more heroes on the run, no more which hero can you trust, and no more villains in charge. New Avengers has been about all these things basically since it started, so the fact that the MU heroes will be able to just be heroes again is a really big shift in tone for the New Avengers book. A new #1 makes a lot of sense considering all that, especially since the entire Avengers line is relaunching.

Seriously, I don't understand the big deal over this. I coulda sworn comics have been relaunched with new #1s before...

Bigtymin504 wrote:

TheBrownLantern wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:I guess the reasoning for the new renumbering is because the whole Avengers like is being relaunched so they decided, new direction, new team and new roster. So new numbering.

Yeah, I get it. I understand its a new era for the Avengers.
Just the whole NEW New Avengers Volume 2 is cracking me up

when marketing matters more than the story
i guess that's just reality

It's both story and marketing motivated. The entire tone of the Marvel Universe is changing from what its been the past few years. No more heroes vs heroes, no more heroes on the run, no more which hero can you trust, and no more villains in charge. New Avengers has been about all these things basically since it started, so the fact that the MU heroes will be able to just be heroes again is a really big shift in tone for the New Avengers book. A new #1 makes a lot of sense considering all that, especially since the entire Avengers line is relaunching.

Seriously, I don't understand the big deal over this. I coulda sworn comics have been relaunched with new #1s before...

It happens all the time and it's done either from a marketing standpoint or story standpoint and more times than not the two are intertwined. I mean if you look at it, more people are going to try out a book when they see #1 as opposed to #31. It's just how it is and it's not like other series haven't had the same treatment. My only problem is the name. The New Avengers. I never liked using the word "NEW" unless your using it to actually describe something new. See, if the Avengers Academy were instead called The New Avengers, that would make a ton more sense to me. I just don't like the word "NEW" used to describe a team because eventually, they are no longer new. I mean, hasn't anyone learned from New Coke? It's just not a good idea.

jaydee74 wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

TheBrownLantern wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:I guess the reasoning for the new renumbering is because the whole Avengers like is being relaunched so they decided, new direction, new team and new roster. So new numbering.

Yeah, I get it. I understand its a new era for the Avengers.
Just the whole NEW New Avengers Volume 2 is cracking me up

when marketing matters more than the story
i guess that's just reality

It's both story and marketing motivated. The entire tone of the Marvel Universe is changing from what its been the past few years. No more heroes vs heroes, no more heroes on the run, no more which hero can you trust, and no more villains in charge. New Avengers has been about all these things basically since it started, so the fact that the MU heroes will be able to just be heroes again is a really big shift in tone for the New Avengers book. A new #1 makes a lot of sense considering all that, especially since the entire Avengers line is relaunching.

Seriously, I don't understand the big deal over this. I coulda sworn comics have been relaunched with new #1s before...

It happens all the time and it's done either from a marketing standpoint or story standpoint and more times than not the two are intertwined. I mean if you look at it, more people are going to try out a book when they see #1 as opposed to #31. It's just how it is and it's not like other series haven't had the same treatment. My only problem is the name. The New Avengers. I never liked using the word "NEW" unless your using it to actually describe something new. See, if the Avengers Academy were instead called The New Avengers, that would make a ton more sense to me. I just don't like the word "NEW" used to describe a team because eventually, they are no longer new. I mean, hasn't anyone learned from New Coke? It's just not a good idea.

I hear you about the name but if you look at it, it still makes some sense. All the Avengers announced for this team so far are not traditional Avengers, they're these "new" kinds of Avengers. Luke Cage, Spidey, and Wolverine are not classic "Avengery" Avengers. And Jewel and Thing are actually new full time Avengers. Plus, the name New Avengers has become really popular and well-known so I understand keeping the name from that standpoint too.

You know, I'm still really hoping that Moon Knight and Iron Fist will be members of this team. I don't think there is much chance for MK being a member, but IF could be a real possibility.

Batman25JM wrote:You know, I'm still really hoping that Moon Knight and Iron Fist will be members of this team. I don't think there is much chance for MK being a member, but IF could be a real possibility.

I could totally see Iron Fist, but not sure about Moon Knight. MK did look like one of the Secret Avengers silhouettes though...

I could see Moon Knight being a Secret Avenger. I would love to see Power Man and Iron Fist teammates on the Avengers. That would rock.

If they're going to push Moon Knight right, they'll make him a member of one of these teams.

LOOSECANNON wrote:If they're going to push Moon Knight right, they'll make him a member of one of these teams.

It raises his profile for sure if he's an Avenger. Wasn't he an Avenger in the 90's? i seem to remember him having an ID communicator for some reason.

I love some She-Hulk, but I'd rather see her on the regular Avengers line as well. What this team needs is a little more along the lines of a projection power... a little more range, if you will.

I'd love to see Cloak and Dagger make it on this team or the Secret Avengers. I was really looking forward to them being in Dark X-Men (though I haven't found the trade yet) and it's about time the team showed Cloak a little respect after being their Civil War mule. They both fit the "from the streets" feel this team has and an extra female definitely wouldn't hurt sales.

Do you think they'll keep the classic Avengers role of "the scientist" on this team, or just leave that for the main book? I guess Peter COULD be that guy, but I'd like to see someone else. I don't want Beast on this team (that would be too much muscle for my taste) but he could fit the part. Plus, I think he would have trouble fitting in with this team's attitude.

vikoros wrote:I love some She-Hulk, but I'd rather see her on the regular Avengers line as well. What this team needs is a little more along the lines of a projection power... a little more range, if you will.

I'd love to see Cloak and Dagger make it on this team or the Secret Avengers. I was really looking forward to them being in Dark X-Men (though I haven't found the trade yet) and it's about time the team showed Cloak a little respect after being their Civil War mule. They both fit the "from the streets" feel this team has and an extra female definitely wouldn't hurt sales.

Do you think they'll keep the classic Avengers role of "the scientist" on this team, or just leave that for the main book? I guess Peter COULD be that guy, but I'd like to see someone else. I don't want Beast on this team (that would be too much muscle for my taste) but he could fit the part. Plus, I think he would have trouble fitting in with this team's attitude.

Honestly, I would like to see Peter be the go-to scientist on the team. Does he even use his science skills anymore besides to make web fluid? I think having him as the science guy would give Spidey more range too than just the wise-cracking hero.