I am a New Avenger

jaydee74 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:Didn't really mean to single you out. I've been seeing it get grief on other sites. Your comment just seemed slightly negative so I quoted it.

No worries. It was more comments than anything else. The Avengers should have this kind of franchise going on. It should be Marvel's best team. I'll have to see who will be on the teams and see what I want to get. I might do two titles.

I'm definitely going to get The Avengers and New Avengers. I love what Bendis has done with the Avengers since he came aboard. I'll try out Secret Avengers, but I'm not sure if I'll stick with it for the long haul. It all depends on who the team is, and what exactly the book will be about. Also, the fact that Mike Deodato is doing the art is a big draw. I LOVE his art. Brubaker being on the book both excites me and worries me. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE his Daredevil and Captain America runs, but is Uncanny X-Men run was a little lackluster. I'm just worried that he can't handle a team book. On the other hand, if Steve Rogers is indeed the leader of the Secret Avengers then I think that this might be awesome.

I'm the most unsure about Avengers Academy. I used to LOVE Avengers: The Initiative, but lately I've lost interest. I haven't even read the last 7 or so issues. I have them, but have yet to read them. I might very well love them, but I just don't have the motivation to read them right now. Since I don't know much more about Avengers Academy I can only assume it'll be like Avengers: The Initiative, and that doesn't thrill me.

Batman25JM wrote:

Mnemosis wrote:BLAARGH!

Why does this get a BLAARGH? This shouldn't be a surprise. I mean, we already knew that Wolvie would be in an Avengers book, he's on the cover to Avengers #1. I figured he'd be a member of the New Avengers and not the team in Avengers proper.

My reaction to Wolverine being yet another team:




My reaction to Wolverine being on a world famous and very public Avenger team while being part of X-Force, Cyclop's personal killing crew.




Personally, I think on that alone, a BLAARGH! is in order.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Mnemosis wrote:BLAARGH!

Why does this get a BLAARGH? This shouldn't be a surprise. I mean, we already knew that Wolvie would be in an Avengers book, he's on the cover to Avengers #1. I figured he'd be a member of the New Avengers and not the team in Avengers proper.

My reaction to Wolverine being yet another team:




My reaction to Wolverine being on a world famous and very public Avenger team while being part of X-Force, Cyclop's personal killing crew.




Personally, I think on that alone, a BLAARGH! is in order.

But it's nothing new. It's been like this for years. I don't know why we should expect anything else. And he really isn't on yet another team, he's just still on the same team he's been on for like six years.

Also, I don't find it any more absurd for Wolverine to be in the public eye in the Avengers, while also being in a black ops team like X-Force than I do for Batman to be on the world famous JLA while also still maintaining the urban myth status that he has.

Batman25JM wrote:But it's nothing new. It's been like this for years. I don't know why we should expect anything else. And he really isn't on yet another team, he's just still on the same team he's been on for like six years.

I never indicated that I didn't expect it. I did indicate that I find amusement that Wolverine was going to be on this team, despite all the other teams he is on.

Batman25JM wrote:
Also, I don't find it any more absurd for Wolverine to be in the public eye in the Avengers, while also being in a black ops team like X-Force than I do for Batman to be on the world famous JLA while also still maintaining the urban myth status that he has.

Except Batman doesn't kill. I imagine the Avengers would have a problem with someone who kills people because "they in need of killin'". While other Avengers have killed and hell, a good part of the team has done so as a group, those times have usually if not always resulted in some serious issue, schism, and so forth with the other Avengers. I mean, look at Hawkeye and his attempt to kill Osborn and the fuss that was made over that. The fuss made over Punisher merely joining the Cap's team during Civil War and his subsequent and violent expulsion by Cap when he killed two known criminals. How would the public perceive such things if the found out? How would the team take it? Would Spider-man go on a moral trip/rant again? One may say that X-Force is black ops but how often do their actions stay under wraps? We've already seen SHIELD up in their business already, let alone other groups. How well do you think this will stay under wraps when the heroes have more freedom more than when Norman was there) and can easily investigate such things? It simply does not add up.

I don't know, I just don't have a problem with it. Cap killed people in WWII, but they don't call him a murderer. With Clint it was more a problem because it was an attempt at a cold blooded execution (and of a really public figure no less). With Punisher, he's a psycho. I think that's the biggest problem they have with him. He's just not right in the head. Also, if you were trying to make a point about super heroes in the Civil War, would you want someone who was killing people to be on your team? It would hurt your point. America has a pretty short attention span and a short memory. We, as a country seem to forgive people in the spotlight. So, during the war I can see them not focusing in on Wolvie since he didn't kill anyone at the time, but Punisher did. That would have been fresh in the public's mind and that would hurt their cause.

I'd also say that Wolvie has kind of mellowed a little. He isn't a madman anymore (for the most part).

Batman25JM wrote:I don't know, I just don't have a problem with it. Cap killed people in WWII, but they don't call him a murderer. With Clint it was more a problem because it was an attempt at a cold blooded execution (and of a really public figure no less). With Punisher, he's a psycho. I think that's the biggest problem they have with him. He's just not right in the head. Also, if you were trying to make a point about super heroes in the Civil War, would you want someone who was killing people to be on your team? It would hurt your point. America has a pretty short attention span and a short memory. We, as a country seem to forgive people in the spotlight. So, during the war I can see them not focusing in on Wolvie since he didn't kill anyone at the time, but Punisher did. That would have been fresh in the public's mind and that would hurt their cause.

I'd also say that Wolvie has kind of mellowed a little. He isn't a madman anymore (for the most part).

If it gets out that Wolvie is part of X-Force, which I can't see how no one would find out, it would be like Punisher being on the Avengers. Add in public mutant hate then you have a nice situation there. As far as teammates go, it would be a volatile mix. Cap I can see dealing with killing when one has to but as often or the circumstances through which Logan does would give him fits. Cap had similar fits when he apprehended X-23 in her series. He was ready to turn her in and everything for the hits she did. While the people Logan takes out deserve it, simply deserving it may not be enough for him. Add that there are a number of other people on the team who have their own viewpoints let alone an idea of what The Avengers should mean, a see issues right there. I mean, if you don't have issues with it, that's cool. I just find the whole set up amusing since it seems like a odd mix. Maybe it will be addressed. If so, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

^I will say one other thing, I don't think that Wolverine's actions or reputation has been much of a problem for the New Avengers. They've spent about two thirds of their series as outlaws. I mean, when you have a team of fugitives does it really matter if one is a killer? And before that, I can see Cap's blessing for him going a long way. If the public believes in Cap and he says that Wolvie is okay, then I can kinda buy it that it wasn't that big of a deal (and also at that time X-Force didn't exist).

Batman25JM wrote:I just don't get why Marvel gets crap for having multiple titles in the same franchise, or for having a character appear in multiple books, yet DC doesn't get the same crap. There are 3 Batman books (4 if you count Detective when it stars Bats, and 6 if you count Batgirl and Red Robin which are in the Bat-Family, and now 7 with Birds of Prey starting up), and he appears in JLA, yet that doesn't seem to mind to people. Also, DC is starting up another book in the Green Lantern franchise, but that doesn't get the crap either. I just don't understand.

Is this a serious comment?

You've never heard someone complain about all the Bat-books, or the Supes-books? Or is this just a case of selective reading?

In all seriousness, DC has gotten plenty of flack if there's even a peep of a new Bat-book. Any character/group with seemingly excessive titles is going to be a target at some point.

prescribeddrone wrote:Why cancel it just to reboot it? I hate when they do that.

It's always an annoying habit but at least they usually do it when sales are plummeting. The book was doing fine though.

Avengers = Mighty Avengers
New Avengers = New Avengers
Secret Avengers = Dark Avengers
Avengers Academy = Avengers: The Initiative

The more things change, the more they stay the same. HEROIC AGE~!

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

My reaction to Wolverine being on a world famous and very public Avenger team while being part of X-Force, Cyclop's personal killing crew.

Putting up an old picture of Joe Quesada... Shame on you.

Batman25JM wrote:^I will say one other thing, I don't think that Wolverine's actions or reputation has been much of a problem for the New Avengers. They've spent about two thirds of their series as outlaws. I mean, when you have a team of fugitives does it really matter if one is a killer? And before that, I can see Cap's blessing for him going a long way. If the public believes in Cap and he says that Wolvie is okay, then I can kinda buy it that it wasn't that big of a deal (and also at that time X-Force didn't exist).

Yeah I think that's important to point out. Its not like Logan has been paraded around as a public face of the Avengers much, the vast majority of the time he's been on the team the New Avengers have been underground. And it seems perfectly legit to me that most of the Avengers don't know about X-Force. Heck, Beast just recently found out and ultimately left the team for it. But even if they did find out, some of them like Spidey might have a big problem with it, but most would probably understand that the X-Men were doing what they felt they had to do for mutantkind to survive. They know Logan is a killer, its part of the reason Cap and Tony originally brought him on the team, because he would "do what other won't" if the time came. But there's a difference between that and a cold blooded executioner like Punisher.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I just don't get why Marvel gets crap for having multiple titles in the same franchise, or for having a character appear in multiple books, yet DC doesn't get the same crap. There are 3 Batman books (4 if you count Detective when it stars Bats, and 6 if you count Batgirl and Red Robin which are in the Bat-Family, and now 7 with Birds of Prey starting up), and he appears in JLA, yet that doesn't seem to mind to people. Also, DC is starting up another book in the Green Lantern franchise, but that doesn't get the crap either. I just don't understand.

Is this a serious comment?

You've never heard someone complain about all the Bat-books, or the Supes-books? Or is this just a case of selective reading?

In all seriousness, DC has gotten plenty of flack if there's even a peep of a new Bat-book. Any character/group with seemingly excessive titles is going to be a target at some point.

Well to be fair, Wolverine does get A LOT of shit for being in multiple titles. Comparatively, I see far less bitching about the 1000 books Bats and Supes are in any given month. I don't get why but the Wolvie haters really tear into the character for "overexposure" or whatever. I mean, he's an immensely popular character and is no more "overexposed" than somebody like Batman. I still don't understand that aspect of it.

Batman25JM aka Batman25JM wrote:^I will say one other thing, I don't think that Wolverine's actions or reputation has been much of a problem for the New Avengers. They've spent about two thirds of their series as outlaws. I mean, when you have a team of fugitives does it really matter if one is a killer? And before that, I can see Cap's blessing for him going a long way. If the public believes in Cap and he says that Wolvie is okay, then I can kinda buy it that it wasn't that big of a deal (and also at that time X-Force didn't exist).

And yet they took issue with the idea of killing Osborn, esepcially Spidey. The issue here is this: Logan is essentially a hitman, taking assigments from Cyclops. he may not fit the exact mold of one but he comes pretty close. They have an issue with Hawkeye killing Osborn but have no problem with Wolvie killing the number of people he does? And that somehow makes sense because they are all fugitives? Ignoring the fact that they are fugitives due to a law they see as unjust, forgetting that they are fugitives in a system presumably corrupt and run by Osborn? They consider themselves fugitives but still righteous in the sense. So I sincerely doubt they would be okay with Wolverine killing scores of people. Wolverine is going to be an Avenger and he kills scores of people at the direction of Cyclops in his spare time. And this will be okay with every single Avenger because Cap asked him to join the team at a time he was not aware of such things because Wolverine was not doing such things at the time. Again, none of it makes sense. We see Cap get on Punisher's case for killing criminals. We see Cap get on X-23's case for killing people. We see Cap get on half the Avenger's case for killing the Supreme Intelligence. But he won't have an issue with Wolverine killing scores of people under Cyclop's discretion. Yeah, no. The whole thing doesn't make sense. Understand, I'm not trying to give you a hard time or attack you or anything. People will have their own views which is cool. I'm just, more or less, kicking this move by Marvel repeatedly in the ribs since it seems silly to me. It makes sense from a business aspect but not much else, hence why I find it funny overall.

In any case, the reason why I keep comenting on this is because it seems fairly clear to me (and not to Marvel, lawl) what sort of issues having black-ops killer can do for a public team not known for such things. I mean, to put it bluntly, if there was no problem and no one had any issue, then why throw a fit with Osborn? Why throw a fit with Bullseye? Why hide Bullseye's actions? Why hide his identity if the public have no issue with a guy that kills scores of people because he was ordered to? Why spend any time and effort covering it up? Why do the same for Daken? If we sit down and truly compare, there hasn't been that much difference between Wolvie's actions and those of Bullseye. None of it really adds up. All we can go on is that they don't know. But X-Force is hardly a secret to agencies like SHIELD, SWORD, or the various intellgence agencies of various countries. And how soon do you think this will come back to nip the Avengers then when Logan is a famous Avenger? The whole move doesn't make sense in the end and is a recipe for all kinds of trouble. Again, not trying to be a dick, just saying and justifying my loud guffawing of this choice. I'm still laughing at Luke Cage: Avenger, head of the thunderbolts, and father. It's plausible but interestingly odd to me.

Bigtymin504 aka that guy from New Orleans wrote:Yeah I think that's important to point out. Its not like Logan has been paraded around as a public face of the Avengers much, the vast majority of the time he's been on the team the New Avengers have been underground. And it seems perfectly legit to me that most of the Avengers don't know about X-Force. Heck, Beast just recently found out and ultimately left the team for it. But even if they did find out, some of them like Spidey might have a big problem with it, but most would probably understand that the X-Men were doing what they felt they had to do for mutantkind to survive. They know Logan is a killer, its part of the reason Cap and Tony originally brought him on the team, because he would "do what other won't" if the time came. But there's a difference between that and a cold blooded executioner like Punisher.

What's the difference between what Punisher is doing? They're both pre-emptive strikes at people deemed threats?Punisher picks out the targets while Cyclops picks out the targets for Logan. And I'm not saying people on the Avengers know about his involvement with X-Force now. I'm saying they will find out since various agencies are taking notice of their actions. And having Logan in such a public position, since one can assume that the Avengers won't be fugitives anymore and very much in the public eye, how prudent is it to have him part of the Avengers while doing what he does in X-Force? The two don't correlate.

LordD3r3k aka master of blades and owner of large Ginsu knives wrote:

Batman25JM aka Batman25JM wrote:I just don't get why Marvel gets crap for having multiple titles in the same franchise, or for having a character appear in multiple books, yet DC doesn't get the same crap. There are 3 Batman books (4 if you count Detective when it stars Bats, and 6 if you count Batgirl and Red Robin which are in the Bat-Family, and now 7 with Birds of Prey starting up), and he appears in JLA, yet that doesn't seem to mind to people. Also, DC is starting up another book in the Green Lantern franchise, but that doesn't get the crap either. I just don't understand.

Is this a serious comment?

You've never heard someone complain about all the Bat-books, or the Supes-books? Or is this just a case of selective reading?

In all seriousness, DC has gotten plenty of flack if there's even a peep of a new Bat-book. Any character/group with seemingly excessive titles is going to be a target at some point.

Well to be fair, Wolverine does get A LOT of shit for being in multiple titles. Comparatively, I see far less bitching about the 1000 books Bats and Supes are in any given month. I don't get why but the Wolvie haters really tear into the character for "overexposure" or whatever. I mean, he's an immensely popular character and is no more "overexposed" than somebody like Batman. I still don't understand that aspect of it.[/quote]

I think the reason why people complain less about the DC books is due to how seperated in continuity they tend to be from each other. Usually 2-3 books is how much overlap there is, unless some special storyline is being put together. Alot of times, the stories take place in a continuity seperate from everything and are rarely mentioned in continuity books. This tends to be the case with Batman. Wolverine, alot of his stories seem to be part of continuity, making for some confusion. His appearances other people's books also add for some confusion as for what the timeline is. The fact that Marvel is often viewed as the "continuity strong" brand played into people expecting and then getting confused by Wolvie's appearances. It's like trying to make sense of all the Deadpool titles and creating a consistent timeline out of those. I think that's the issue people have with it. Personally, I just laugh at all of it when they do stuff like this, knowing they're just trying to cash in on the character's fame.

That said, I think Wolvierine should be changed to Snicktbub by the autofilter, if we have one. Why? For lulz!!!!!

lol I forgot how wordy I can be. Back to posting funny pictures.

So did you guys here? Avengers # 1 might ship BEFORE SIEGE #4. 7 days earlier. They're going to fix it though, going by a few tweets.

prescribeddrone aka Why is this text not yellow??!!!???? wrote:So did you guys here? Avengers # 1 might ship BEFORE SIEGE #4. 7 days earlier. They're going to fix it though, going by a few tweets.

Huh. I wonder what's up with that. I take it they're trying to drum up interest in the end of Seige then?

Yellow text would take more effort and hard to read without highlghting codes.

More pages.

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=189303%29:

BENDIS

nothing is getting pushed. settle down.

siege 4 has a ton of extra pages.

Lol yes quite wordy Wade.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:And yet they took issue with the idea of killing Osborn, esepcially Spidey. The issue here is this: Logan is essentially a hitman, taking assigments from Cyclops. he may not fit the exact mold of one but he comes pretty close. They have an issue with Hawkeye killing Osborn but have no problem with Wolvie killing the number of people he does? And that somehow makes sense because they are all fugitives? Ignoring the fact that they are fugitives due to a law they see as unjust, forgetting that they are fugitives in a system presumably corrupt and run by Osborn? They consider themselves fugitives but still righteous in the sense. So I sincerely doubt they would be okay with Wolverine killing scores of people. Wolverine is going to be an Avenger and he kills scores of people at the direction of Cyclops in his spare time. And this will be okay with every single Avenger because Cap asked him to join the team at a time he was not aware of such things because Wolverine was not doing such things at the time. Again, none of it makes sense. We see Cap get on Punisher's case for killing criminals. We see Cap get on X-23's case for killing people. We see Cap get on half the Avenger's case for killing the Supreme Intelligence. But he won't have an issue with Wolverine killing scores of people under Cyclop's discretion. Yeah, no. The whole thing doesn't make sense.

What Hawkeye wanted to do was straight up assassinate a public official in cold blood, even if it is Osborn I don't see the Avengers ever sanctioning that. What they know about Logan is, he kills if he has to in a fight, but he's not a cold blooded murderer. There is a subtle difference. And if you think about it, the Avengers didn't seem to have a problem with people killing Skrulls during the big fights in Secret Invasion. If you cut a Skrull, does it not bleed?

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:In any case, the reason why I keep comenting on this is because it seems fairly clear to me what sort of issues having black-ops killer can do for a public team not known for such things. I mean, to put it bluntly, if there was no problem and no one had any issue, then why throw a fit with Osborn? Why throw a fit with Bullseye? Why hide Bullseye's actions? Why hide his identity if the public have no issue with a guy that kills scores of people because he was ordered to? Why spend any time and effort covering it up? Why do the same for Daken? If we sit down and truly compare, there hasn't been that much difference between Wolvie's actions and those of Bullseye. None of it really adds up. All we can go on is that they don't know. But X-Force is hardly a secret to agencies like SHIELD, SWORD, or the various intellgence agencies of various countries. And how soon do you think this will come back to nip the Avengers then when Logan is a famous Avenger? The whole move doesn't make sense in the end and is a recipe for all kinds of trouble.

What's the difference between Wolverine and Bullseye?!? Well for one, Wolverine doesn't murder innocent men, women, and children to satisfy his psychotic bloodlust lol. Seriously, there's no comparison between the two. Bullseye just recently murdered a building full of like a hundred people, including children, just to fuck with Daredevil. The dude is sick.

X-Force on the other hand is a black-ops team that targets enemies that have specifically tried to kill the X-Men or all of mutantkind. They go in to stop them and kill them if it comes to it, but not necessarily murder them in cold blood. And that's not to say Logan hasn't done some really bad stuff in his day, but most of its been in his checkered past. For the most part, he's straightened out as a more traditional hero since then, but he does still kill if he has to.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:What's the difference between what Punisher is doing? They're both pre-emptive strikes at people deemed threats?Punisher picks out the targets while Cyclops picks out the targets for Logan. And I'm not saying people on the Avengers know about his involvement with X-Force now. I'm saying they will find out since various agencies are taking notice of their actions. And having Logan in such a public position, since one can assume that the Avengers won't be fugitives anymore and very much in the public eye, how prudent is it to have him part of the Avengers while doing what he does in X-Force? The two don't correlate.

Well like I said, there is a subtle but important difference between what X-Force does and what somebody like Punisher does. Punisher just flat out murders whoever he deems a low-life criminal. Cap kicked his ass in Civil War because he shot up two supposed villains that were just trying to join Cap's underground resistance. They were unarmed and not posing any threat and Punisher murdered them in cold blood. X-Force doesn't partake in stuff like that. Sure they kill if they have to, but they set out more to look for fights and finish them rather than to simply go out and gut unarmed foes.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:I think the reason why people complain less about the DC books is due to how seperated in continuity they tend to be from each other. Usually 2-3 books is how much overlap there is, unless some special storyline is being put together. Alot of times, the stories take place in a continuity seperate from everything and are rarely mentioned in continuity books. This tends to be the case with Batman. Wolverine, alot of his stories seem to be part of continuity, making for some confusion. His appearances other people's books also add for some confusion as for what the timeline is. The fact that Marvel is often viewed as the "continuity strong" brand played into people expecting and then getting confused by Wolvie's appearances. It's like trying to make sense of all the Deadpool titles and creating a consistent timeline out of those. I think that's the issue people have with it. Personally, I just laugh at all of it when they do stuff like this, knowing they're just trying to cash in on the character's fame.

I dunno I don't buy that. Batman does his fair share of jumping around various different places and showing up in various different books. I'd say its the same kind of "continuity" thing as Wolverine. And at least Logan has a healing factor to recover from all that traveling.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty aka Captain Charisma wrote:And yet they took issue with the idea of killing Osborn, esepcially Spidey. The issue here is this: Logan is essentially a hitman, taking assigments from Cyclops. he may not fit the exact mold of one but he comes pretty close. They have an issue with Hawkeye killing Osborn but have no problem with Wolvie killing the number of people he does? And that somehow makes sense because they are all fugitives? Ignoring the fact that they are fugitives due to a law they see as unjust, forgetting that they are fugitives in a system presumably corrupt and run by Osborn? They consider themselves fugitives but still righteous in the sense. So I sincerely doubt they would be okay with Wolverine killing scores of people. Wolverine is going to be an Avenger and he kills scores of people at the direction of Cyclops in his spare time. And this will be okay with every single Avenger because Cap asked him to join the team at a time he was not aware of such things because Wolverine was not doing such things at the time. Again, none of it makes sense. We see Cap get on Punisher's case for killing criminals. We see Cap get on X-23's case for killing people. We see Cap get on half the Avenger's case for killing the Supreme Intelligence. But he won't have an issue with Wolverine killing scores of people under Cyclop's discretion. Yeah, no. The whole thing doesn't make sense.

What Hawkeye wanted to do was straight up assassinate a public official in cold blood, even if it is Osborn I don't see the Avengers ever sanctioning that. What they know about Logan is, he kills if he has to in a fight, but he's not a cold blooded murderer. There is a subtle difference. And if you think about it, the Avengers didn't seem to have a problem with people killing Skrulls during the big fights in Secret Invasion. If you cut a Skrull, does it not bleed?

The Avengers killing the skrulls seemed like an odd lapse considering how they acted towards such in the past, even when the lives of Earth was at stake. I simply chalked it up to Bendis being Bendis. But what is so different from what Hawkeye wanted to do from what Wolverine does? The only difference I see is that one is in public while one is not. Wolverine's targets are no different than Osborn, especially in the atrocities that they committed (Osborn santioning the killing of a number of Atlanteans and his move on the X-men), so I don't see the difference the action of Wolverine killing and Hawkeye killing.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty aka Big Sexy wrote:In any case, the reason why I keep comenting on this is because it seems fairly clear to me what sort of issues having black-ops killer can do for a public team not known for such things. I mean, to put it bluntly, if there was no problem and no one had any issue, then why throw a fit with Osborn? Why throw a fit with Bullseye? Why hide Bullseye's actions? Why hide his identity if the public have no issue with a guy that kills scores of people because he was ordered to? Why spend any time and effort covering it up? Why do the same for Daken? If we sit down and truly compare, there hasn't been that much difference between Wolvie's actions and those of Bullseye. None of it really adds up. All we can go on is that they don't know. But X-Force is hardly a secret to agencies like SHIELD, SWORD, or the various intellgence agencies of various countries. And how soon do you think this will come back to nip the Avengers then when Logan is a famous Avenger? The whole move doesn't make sense in the end and is a recipe for all kinds of trouble.

What's the difference between Wolverine and Bullseye?!? Well for one, Wolverine doesn't murder innocent men, women, and children to satisfy his psychotic bloodlust lol. Seriously, there's no comparison between the two. Bullseye just recently murdered a building full of like a hundred people, including children, just to fuck with Daredevil. The dude is sick.

X-Force on the other hand is a black-ops team that targets enemies that have specifically tried to kill the X-Men or all of mutantkind. They go in to stop them and kill them if it comes to it, but not necessarily murder them in cold blood. And that's not to say Logan hasn't done some really bad stuff in his day, but most of its been in his checkered past. For the most part, he's straightened out as a more traditional hero since then, but he does still kill if he has to.

I know Bullseye is sick and such. But in their actions and roles under Dark Reign, there has been very little difference. Bullseye has functionally been acting like Norm's personal hitman, much like how Wolvie has been acting like Cyclop's personal hitman. Bullseye is given an order to kill a bunch of agents in his own Dark reign miniseries. How is this different than the fanatics Wolvie was asked to kill? In function and action they are more or less the same at the end of the day with intent being the only thing. And we all know how important intent is to the Marvel public (Dark Avengers and Norman vs. the Secret Avengers). That said, being part of any black ops assassination squad won't sit well with any group, especially if you keep black ops killing while in that group. The public won't think to highly of it (since it amounts to murder regardless of the reason really). I don't see how one can be reconciled here.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty aka Fat Honking Loving wrote:What's the difference between what Punisher is doing? They're both pre-emptive strikes at people deemed threats?Punisher picks out the targets while Cyclops picks out the targets for Logan. And I'm not saying people on the Avengers know about his involvement with X-Force now. I'm saying they will find out since various agencies are taking notice of their actions. And having Logan in such a public position, since one can assume that the Avengers won't be fugitives anymore and very much in the public eye, how prudent is it to have him part of the Avengers while doing what he does in X-Force? The two don't correlate.

Well like I said, there is a subtle but important difference between what X-Force does and what somebody like Punisher does. Punisher just flat out murders whoever he deems a low-life criminal. Cap kicked his ass in Civil War because he shot up two supposed villains that were just trying to join Cap's underground resistance. They were unarmed and not posing any threat and Punisher murdered them in cold blood. X-Force doesn't partake in stuff like that. Sure they kill if they have to, but they set out more to look for fights and finish them rather than to simply go out and gut unarmed foes.

"Punisher just flat out murders whoever he deems a low-life criminal."

Cyclops flat out kills anyone who he deems a threat to mutantkind. Remember that large board of targets Cylops had in X-Force? In the end, you have two men playing judge jury and executioner for people. It amounts to the same thing. You think Cap would buy Cyclops's excuse? You think the public would be glad to look the other way? You think the Avengers would be glad to look the other way? No in all cases since they have not done so in the past or recently.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty aka Superfreak wrote:I think the reason why people complain less about the DC books is due to how seperated in continuity they tend to be from each other. Usually 2-3 books is how much overlap there is, unless some special storyline is being put together. Alot of times, the stories take place in a continuity seperate from everything and are rarely mentioned in continuity books. This tends to be the case with Batman. Wolverine, alot of his stories seem to be part of continuity, making for some confusion. His appearances other people's books also add for some confusion as for what the timeline is. The fact that Marvel is often viewed as the "continuity strong" brand played into people expecting and then getting confused by Wolvie's appearances. It's like trying to make sense of all the Deadpool titles and creating a consistent timeline out of those. I think that's the issue people have with it. Personally, I just laugh at all of it when they do stuff like this, knowing they're just trying to cash in on the character's fame.

I dunno I don't buy that. Batman does his fair share of jumping around various different places and showing up in various different books. I'd say its the same kind of "continuity" thing as Wolverine. And at least Logan has a healing factor to recover from all that traveling.

I think Batman's is different. Even now, we have stories that feature Dickbat and ones that feature Brucebat, with the added note that the Brucebat stories occurred before he died and that's it. With Wolverine, you can't do that. Before he died, the stories were treated the same way, but instead, these side stories were never tied into continuity. A good deal of Wolvie's stories seem to, especially his appearances in other books which tend to be substantial. Batman usually shows up and makes a comment or two before going or his role limited unless he is the star of the title.

^Well I dunno I think I explained the subtle differences, as I see them at least, we don't have to agree on them I guess.

But I still don't see the difference between Batman's various appearances (pre-death) and Wolverine's. Both have a number of solo ongoings at any given moment and both show up in different team books or cameo in other characters' books. I see it as Wolverine and Batman are both huge cash cows for their respective companies, so not a surprise to see them in a million books. I just think there's an unfair overreaction in Wolverine's case. I mean, Logan hasn't even been in New Avengers since Utopia, so its not like his appearances are unreasonable.

Bigtymin, Bigtymin, bo-Bigtymin, Banana-fana fo-figtymin, Fee-fi-mo-migtymin, Bigtymin! It's the naaaaaame game! wrote:^Well I dunno I think I explained the subtle differences, as I see them at least, we don't have to agree on them I guess.

But I still don't see the difference between Batman's various appearances (pre-death) and Wolverine's. Both have a number of solo ongoings at any given moment and both show up in different team books or cameo in other characters' books. I see it as Wolverine and Batman are both huge cash cows for their respective companies, so not a surprise to see them in a million books. I just think there's an unfair overreaction in Wolverine's case. I mean, Logan hasn't even been in an Avengers book since Utopia, so its not like his appearances are unreasonable.

Oh, I agree about them being cash cows and all that. No argument. I do think that both show up alot as well. I just don't see any real bias against Wolvie. Honestly, I think the only real bias may be in that maybe people stopped harping about Batman and accepted it. People will stop harping about Wolverine in the same manner at some point and move on to Deadpool or something (it's already happening actually). But ultimately they both get flack for Multiple Man syndrome, speaking of which, they should take advantage of Multiple Man and use him in such a manner. It sucks that they don't.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Bigtymin, Bigtymin, bo-Bigtymin, Banana-fana fo-figtymin, Fee-fi-mo-migtymin, Bigtymin! It's the naaaaaame game! wrote:^Well I dunno I think I explained the subtle differences, as I see them at least, we don't have to agree on them I guess.

But I still don't see the difference between Batman's various appearances (pre-death) and Wolverine's. Both have a number of solo ongoings at any given moment and both show up in different team books or cameo in other characters' books. I see it as Wolverine and Batman are both huge cash cows for their respective companies, so not a surprise to see them in a million books. I just think there's an unfair overreaction in Wolverine's case. I mean, Logan hasn't even been in an Avengers book since Utopia, so its not like his appearances are unreasonable.

Oh, I agree about them being cash cows and all that. No argument. I do think that both show up alot as well. I just don't see any real bias against Wolvie. Honestly, I think the only real bias may be in that maybe people stopped harping about Batman and accepted it. People will stop harping about Wolverine in the same manner at some point and move on to Deadpool or something (it's already happening actually). But ultimately they both get flack for Multiple Man syndrome, speaking of which, they should take advantage of Multiple Man and use him in such a manner. It sucks that they don't.

Honestly, I do see a double standard when it comes to Wolverine's appearances though. I've seen way more whining about it than any other character, including Bats. I dunno how many times I've seen "so and so is the next Wolverine" in reference to the character showing up in a lot of books. Seems silly to me considering how many other popular characters show up various places.

It would be funny if there was a Madrox on every team...I smell a What If?

Oh and I won't even try to naaame game Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty!

[quote="Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty"]

Bigtymin, Bigtymin, bo-Bigtymin, Banana-fana fo-figtymin, Fee-fi-mo-migtymin, Bigtymin! It's the naaaaaame game! wrote:

speaking of which, they should take advantage of Multiple Man and use him in such a manner. It sucks that they don't.

I ended up buying that book just for the cover ^

Bigtymin504 and them 504 boyz wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty in the hizzzz-ouse! wrote:

Bigtymin, Bigtymin, bo-Bigtymin, Banana-fana fo-figtymin, Fee-fi-mo-migtymin, Bigtymin! It's the naaaaaame game! wrote:^Well I dunno I think I explained the subtle differences, as I see them at least, we don't have to agree on them I guess.

But I still don't see the difference between Batman's various appearances (pre-death) and Wolverine's. Both have a number of solo ongoings at any given moment and both show up in different team books or cameo in other characters' books. I see it as Wolverine and Batman are both huge cash cows for their respective companies, so not a surprise to see them in a million books. I just think there's an unfair overreaction in Wolverine's case. I mean, Logan hasn't even been in an Avengers book since Utopia, so its not like his appearances are unreasonable.

Oh, I agree about them being cash cows and all that. No argument. I do think that both show up alot as well. I just don't see any real bias against Wolvie. Honestly, I think the only real bias may be in that maybe people stopped harping about Batman and accepted it. People will stop harping about Wolverine in the same manner at some point and move on to Deadpool or something (it's already happening actually). But ultimately they both get flack for Multiple Man syndrome, speaking of which, they should take advantage of Multiple Man and use him in such a manner. It sucks that they don't.

Honestly, I do see a double standard when it comes to Wolverine's appearances though. I've seen way more whining about it than any other character, including Bats. I dunno how many times I've seen "so and so is the next Wolverine" in reference to the character showing up in a lot of books. Seems silly to me considering how many other popular characters show up various places.

It would be funny if there was a Madrox on every team...I smell a What If?

Maybe, maybe. But Wolvie just has healing and claws. Bats has prep time and that solves everything so....

And it would be hilarious to have Madrox on everyteam. Even in real comics, considering how much Cyclops rides him for not "living up to his potential" and stuff like that. I'd send a dupe to shut Cyc up and keep an eye on him. Speaks volumes on how mcuh they can't stand each other I guess.

This does remind me of a Titans issue where Flash showed up, punked a number of their enemies and took off again. It was classic.

prescribeddrone: FDA approved wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty but not that nasty...okay, quite nasty wrote:

Bigtymin, Bigtymin, bo-Bigtymin, Banana-fana fo-figtymin, Fee-fi-mo-migtymin, Bigtymin! It's the naaaaaame game! wrote:

speaking of which, they should take advantage of Multiple Man and use him in such a manner. It sucks that they don't.

I ended up buying that book just for the cover ^

Ha! Win.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:Maybe, maybe. But Wolvie just has healing and claws. Bats has prep time and that solves everything so....

Touche. Also, Batarang > Tribunarang.

Bigtymin504, he who remembers Living Tribunal's grand quest to defeat everyone wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty, he who is getting carried away with name editing wrote:Maybe, maybe. But Wolvie just has healing and claws. Bats has prep time and that solves everything so....

Touche. Also, Batarang > Tribunarang.

How could I forget the tribunarangs? The only thing to beat Squirrel Girl and Howard the Duck....at the same time.