Batman and Robin

prescribeddrone wrote:So some people think that Sexton is Joker....and when he's hanging his trenchcoat, there is a pair of purple looking slacks there.

Interesting if it was colored like that intentionally.

Eh, I haven't seen the panel, but I don't think it's Joker. I think the comment about him having very good hearing is some kind of clue, which doesn't apply to the Joker

Batman25JM wrote:^Also, I haven't hated everything I've read from Morrison. I like some of the New X-Men stuff I've read of his. As well as the little bit of Flash stuff of his, and what I've read of All-Star Superman hasn't been that bad.

Again. Makes no sense to spend money on a writer you don't like or for issues your not enjoying. Why not save that money and spend it on something you do like?

LordD3r3k wrote:

prescribeddrone wrote:So some people think that Sexton is Joker....and when he's hanging his trenchcoat, there is a pair of purple looking slacks there.

Interesting if it was colored like that intentionally.

Eh, I haven't seen the panel, but I don't think it's Joker. I think the comment about him having very good hearing is some kind of clue, which doesn't apply to the Joker

I didn't think it was the Joker either but I am very curious as to who this person really is.

Batman & Robin #10

After surveying various web reviews and blog responses concerning Batman & Robin #10 for clues, I may be the only one thinking Oberton Sexton is Red Robin. Perhaps that's in primary respoinse to the fact the character has been severely underused, or used poorly thus far within the new status quo. You hardly see Tim Drake--who many have labeled the "best" Robin--other than in his own title, which has failed to match the exciting machinations of other Reborn titles.

If Morrison is trying to save the relevance of that title within this book, good for him.

With Frank Quitely sticking to cover art as of late, it's good to see Andy Clarke emulate the grainy, descriptively poppy stylings of Quitely so effortlessly. Clarke's pencils aren't quite as characteristic as Stewart's, since uneducated fans like myself have no idea what Clarke's action scenes will look like, but it's quite the match for Alfred, Dick and Damien's detective work. Anything but Philip Tan, I suppose.

Another issue could point towards the issue's pacing. Not even Sherlock Holmes could solve as many clues as swiftly as Grayson; as even being one of the world's finest detectives, Dick answers clues as natural as one would tie his or her own shoes. Again, it could be Morrison screwing with our heads. He's never been one to serve all the answers on a silver platter, although the more accessible Batman & Robin has been a new monster altogether.

Even the highest of Grant Morrison pundits will find something to enjoy in this issue. There's plenty of good character work without all the abstract dialogue; there continues to be new villains and characters that Morrison initially promised in interviews nearly a year ago; and Dick Grayson continues to have an enjoyably distinct voice as the Dark Knight even as the posthumous Batman continues to linger over.

The Return of Bruce Wayne. How such a intriguing concept continues to depress me... I'm having way too much fun now.

4/5 Bags&Boards - Arguably, the best DC book on the stands this side of Green Lantern.

LOOSECANNON wrote:Batman & Robin #10

After surveying various web reviews and blog responses concerning Batman & Robin #10 for clues, I may be the only one thinking Oberton Sexton is Red Robin. Perhaps that's in primary respoinse to the fact the character has been severely underused, or used poorly thus far within the new status quo. You hardly see Tim Drake--who many have labeled the "best" Robin--other than in his own title, which has failed to match the exciting machinations of other Reborn titles.

If Morrison is trying to save the relevance of that title within this book, good for him.

With Frank Quitely sticking to cover art as of late, it's good to see Andy Clarke emulate the grainy, descriptively poppy stylings of Quitely so effortlessly. Clarke's pencils aren't quite as characteristic as Stewart's, since uneducated fans like myself have no idea what Clarke's action scenes will look like, but it's quite the match for Alfred, Dick and Damien's detective work. Anything but Philip Tan, I suppose.

Another issue could point towards the issue's pacing. Not even Sherlock Holmes could solve as many clues as swiftly as Grayson; as even being one of the world's finest detectives, Dick answers clues as natural as one would tie his or her own shoes. Again, it could be Morrison screwing with our heads. He's never been one to serve all the answers on a silver platter, although the more accessible Batman & Robin has been a new monster altogether.

Even the highest of Grant Morrison pundits will find something to enjoy in this issue. There's plenty of good character work without all the abstract dialogue; there continues to be new villains and characters that Morrison initially promised in interviews nearly a year ago; and Dick Grayson continues to have an enjoyably distinct voice as the Dark Knight even as the posthumous Batman continues to linger over.

The Return of Bruce Wayne. How such a intriguing concept continues to depress me... I'm having way too much fun now.

4/5 Bags&Boards - Arguably, the best DC book on the stands this side of Green Lantern.

So very true. And the Red Robin theory intrigues me.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Jherek wrote:I'm surprised no-one has commented on my guess that Bruce for reasons which will become apparent, has actually become Doctor Hurt/The Devil in one of his Omega Sanction past lives - effectively kicking off the whole RIP scenario.

WAIT! Dr. Hurt's big shtick was that he kept calling himself "Thomas Wayne".. and we just learned in this issue that the ancestor Thomas Wayne practiced cult worshiping and other unsavory acts, which is why his portrait no longer hangs in the manor. During RIP, we all assumed "Thomas Wayne" was referring to Bruce's father, but perhaps it's really referring to the ancestor. Jherek my boy, I think you're on to something here!

And BTW, this just blew my mind

Just doin my job. Seriously the idea that somehow Bruce is behind it all and as part of the Omega Sanction Effect must spend some time as an evil incarnation just makes so much sense (especially if you know your Morrison!)

Jherek wrote:

LordD3r3k wrote:

Jherek wrote:I'm surprised no-one has commented on my guess that Bruce for reasons which will become apparent, has actually become Doctor Hurt/The Devil in one of his Omega Sanction past lives - effectively kicking off the whole RIP scenario.

WAIT! Dr. Hurt's big shtick was that he kept calling himself "Thomas Wayne".. and we just learned in this issue that the ancestor Thomas Wayne practiced cult worshiping and other unsavory acts, which is why his portrait no longer hangs in the manor. During RIP, we all assumed "Thomas Wayne" was referring to Bruce's father, but perhaps it's really referring to the ancestor. Jherek my boy, I think you're on to something here!

And BTW, this just blew my mind

Just doin my job. Seriously the idea that somehow Bruce is behind it all and as part of the Omega Sanction Effect must spend some time as an evil incarnation just makes so much sense (especially if you know your Morrison!)

True and not only does it make sense but it's awesome but I doubt Batman25JM will like it. It is Morrison afterall.

Batman25JM wrote:^Also, I haven't hated everything I've read from Morrison. I like some of the New X-Men stuff I've read of his. As well as the little bit of Flash stuff of his, and what I've read of All-Star Superman hasn't been that bad.

Well you did say elsewhere that you missed our Morrison discussions Bats!
I'm kinda in agreement with Jaydee here though, If you're not liking the book the simple solution is to not bother with it. I think there's a clue to why you're not enjoying Morrison on the Batman titles in your statement -

Bruce is my favorite fictional character, and as much as I dislike what Morrison is doing, as well as his writing, I want to read what is going on with him'.

The idea that Morrison (or any writer) is just reporting 'what is goin on' with the characters is wierd. The definitive word you use is 'fictional'. Batman isn't real. Morrison is not a journalist he's a creative writer.

It's like - my favourite fictional character is Doctor Who but if a writer I don't like writes about him I don't feel I have to read that work in case I miss 'what is going on with him'.

Which brings me to -

I HATE that type of time travel logic. The "changes" in the manor should have always been there, IMO.

Yes I know what you mean, so do I hate it (I cringe at certain scenes in 'Back to the Future' where photos fade as history is changed) Yes the Secret Batcave should always have been there but it wasn't and now it is. What Morrison is doing here is commenting on just that kind of hokey Time Travel trope from within the text. That's what I meant when I said he's dealing in metafiction. Again Batman isn't real and is not being written about here as though he or his supporting cast or scenery are real. This is Morrison's antidote to the laughable 'realistic' Dark and Gritty Bat Trope instigated by Frank Miller in the 1990's. here replaced by the psychedelic self-referential 'Lynch on acid' Post - modern rollercoaster Batman and Robin. Enjoy the ride.

Jherek, you are a man of incredible reason. Just wanted to say that. That and I agree with you 100%.

jaydee74 wrote:Jherek, you are a man of incredible reason. Just wanted to say that. That and I agree with you 100%.

Thanks dude!

Also I'd like to point out that Batman25JM is one of my fave guys to talk about Morrison with here precisely because he rarely agrees with me but when we do form some kinda consensus it's always cool. Plus he never takes it personally.

I'm in complete agreement with that statement as well. It's cool to talk to him about comics as he's so passionate about the things he's into. We don't have to agree on everything to have good conversations and I enjoy what Batman25JM has to say even if I don't always agree with him, he's cool guy.

Batman is miserable. lol

No, I enjoy Batman25J5k98snc,mwweejjdnf posts too... esp since he's always so angry!

jaydee74 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^Also, I haven't hated everything I've read from Morrison. I like some of the New X-Men stuff I've read of his. As well as the little bit of Flash stuff of his, and what I've read of All-Star Superman hasn't been that bad.

Again. Makes no sense to spend money on a writer you don't like or for issues your not enjoying. Why not save that money and spend it on something you do like?

I'm a complex and weird fellow. It would be to logical to stop buying something I don't like.

I was actually going to drop the book, but then it started to turn into a prelude to The Return of Bruce Wayne, and since I'm going to read that I wanted to continue getting this book. After Bruce's return is over, if Morrison is still writing this book then I'll drop it.

I know I'm not the only one who continues to buy books they don't like for various reasons. Just take a look in the JLA thread. Most people don't seem to be enjoying that book and they continue to buy it for one reason or another.

jaydee74 wrote:

Jherek wrote:

LordD3r3k wrote:

Jherek wrote:I'm surprised no-one has commented on my guess that Bruce for reasons which will become apparent, has actually become Doctor Hurt/The Devil in one of his Omega Sanction past lives - effectively kicking off the whole RIP scenario.

WAIT! Dr. Hurt's big shtick was that he kept calling himself "Thomas Wayne".. and we just learned in this issue that the ancestor Thomas Wayne practiced cult worshiping and other unsavory acts, which is why his portrait no longer hangs in the manor. During RIP, we all assumed "Thomas Wayne" was referring to Bruce's father, but perhaps it's really referring to the ancestor. Jherek my boy, I think you're on to something here!

And BTW, this just blew my mind

Just doin my job. Seriously the idea that somehow Bruce is behind it all and as part of the Omega Sanction Effect must spend some time as an evil incarnation just makes so much sense (especially if you know your Morrison!)

True and not only does it make sense but it's awesome but I doubt Batman25JM will like it. It is Morrison afterall.

While I prefer my Batman stories to be more realistic (or as realistic as possible) street level stories (and that's probably another big reason I'm not digging Morrison's stuff), I wouldn't mind it if Hurt turned out to be Bruce's ancestor.

Jherek wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^Also, I haven't hated everything I've read from Morrison. I like some of the New X-Men stuff I've read of his. As well as the little bit of Flash stuff of his, and what I've read of All-Star Superman hasn't been that bad.

Well you did say elsewhere that you missed our Morrison discussions Bats!
I'm kinda in agreement with Jaydee here though, If you're not liking the book the simple solution is to not bother with it. I think there's a clue to why you're not enjoying Morrison on the Batman titles in your statement -

Bruce is my favorite fictional character, and as much as I dislike what Morrison is doing, as well as his writing, I want to read what is going on with him'.

The idea that Morrison (or any writer) is just reporting 'what is goin on' with the characters is weird. The definitive word you use is 'fictional'. Batman isn't real. Morrison is not a journalist he's a creative writer.

It's like - my favourite fictional character is Doctor Who but if a writer I don't like writes about him I don't feel I have to read that work in case I miss 'what is going on with him'.

I know they are fictional (I'm not THAT delusional ), but I want to keep up with his fictional exploits. I don't want to be left in the dark. If I'm reading another book and something about what is going on in Batman's book is mentioned, I want to have a clue what they are talking about. For example, in Red Robin, Hush has been mentioned and seen. If I had not read Dini's recent Hush stuff I'd be clueless as to what is going on. Now, I could do research, but I prefer to already know while reading to the book.

There is also the fact that once Morrison leaves the plot points originated by him could very well be continued and I don't want to be lost. This is more of a problem with DC than it is with Marvel because Marvel has the recap pages.

Jherek wrote:
Which brings me to -

I HATE that type of time travel logic. The "changes" in the manor should have always been there, IMO.

Yes I know what you mean, so do I hate it (I cringe at certain scenes in 'Back to the Future' where photos fade as history is changed) Yes the Secret Batcave should always have been there but it wasn't and now it is. What Morrison is doing here is commenting on just that kind of hokey Time Travel trope from within the text. That's what I meant when I said he's dealing in metafiction. Again Batman isn't real and is not being written about here as though he or his supporting cast or scenery are real. This is Morrison's antidote to the laughable 'realistic' Dark and Gritty Bat Trope instigated by Frank Miller in the 1990's. here replaced by the psychedelic self-referential 'Lynch on acid' Post - modern rollercoaster Batman and Robin. Enjoy the ride.

Yeah, I see what you mean, I just don't like it. I don't want any kind of commentary like this when reading a comic. There lies another problem I have with Morrison. I'm glad you guys like it, but it's not what I want from a Batman story, and if it wasn't dealing with Bruce's return I wouldn't be reading it.

Jherek wrote:Also I'd like to point out that Batman25JM is one of my fave guys to talk about Morrison with here precisely because he rarely agrees with me but when we do form some kinda consensus it's always cool. Plus he never takes it personally.

jaydee74 wrote:I'm in complete agreement with that statement as well. It's cool to talk to him about comics as he's so passionate about the things he's into. We don't have to agree on everything to have good conversations and I enjoy what Batman25JM has to say even if I don't always agree with him, he's cool guy.

LOOSECANNON wrote:Batman is miserable. lol

No, I enjoy Batman25J5k98snc,mwweejjdnf posts too... esp since he's always so angry!

Awww... I feel the love. Come on, group hug.

You guys are great too.

We say all of this with L-O-V-E.

Nah. I hear what your saying. Morrison is not your cup of tea and that's gotta be annoying since he's writing this book and you love Batman. I can see the frustration in that. It would be like if DC suddenly got rid of Geoff Johns on Green Lantern and brought back Jeph Loeb to be the new writer. I would have an aneurysm.

jaydee74 wrote:We say all of this with L-O-V-E.

Nah. I hear what your saying. Morrison is not your cup of tea and that's gotta be annoying since he's writing this book and you love Batman. I can see the frustration in that. It would be like if DC suddenly got rid of Geoff Johns on Green Lantern and brought back Jeph Loeb to be the new writer. I would have an aneurysm.

That would be a sad day if Loeb took over for Johns.

It is frustrating to have a writer I'm not a fan of writing my favorite character (well, close to my favorite, I love Dick, but I love Bruce more). It's especially frustrating because I'm not loving Daniel's run on Batman either. I don't hate it, but I'm not a huge fan of it either.

Batman25JM wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:We say all of this with L-O-V-E.

Nah. I hear what your saying. Morrison is not your cup of tea and that's gotta be annoying since he's writing this book and you love Batman. I can see the frustration in that. It would be like if DC suddenly got rid of Geoff Johns on Green Lantern and brought back Jeph Loeb to be the new writer. I would have an aneurysm.

That would be a sad day if Loeb took over for Johns.

It is frustrating to have a writer I'm not a fan of writing my favorite character (well, close to my favorite, I love Dick, but I love Bruce more). It's especially frustrating because I'm not loving Daniel's run on Batman either. I don't hate it, but I'm not a huge fan of it either.

See. I can't say I love Morrison. He is really a hit or miss writer for me. As for Dick Grayson. He's tied with Hal Jordan as my favorite character of all-time. I love them both equally for different reasons. I have been a fan of Dick Grayson longer than I have been a fan of Hal Jordan and while I do love Dick as Batman, I kinda miss Nightwing. Although I think this Batman and Robin team is completely awesome and considering that this Batman and Robin team is a lot like this imaginary Batman and Robin story in the 60's. In the story that is narrated by Alfred, Dick took over the role as Batman and the son of Bruce Wayne and Kathy Kane became the new Robin. I like the interaction between Dick and Damian and I want to see it further evolve.

As soon as Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, "The Dark Knight Returns" trilogy is over, Dick Grayson should return as Batman...somehow...

Seriously.

jaydee74 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:We say all of this with L-O-V-E.

Nah. I hear what your saying. Morrison is not your cup of tea and that's gotta be annoying since he's writing this book and you love Batman. I can see the frustration in that. It would be like if DC suddenly got rid of Geoff Johns on Green Lantern and brought back Jeph Loeb to be the new writer. I would have an aneurysm.

That would be a sad day if Loeb took over for Johns.

It is frustrating to have a writer I'm not a fan of writing my favorite character (well, close to my favorite, I love Dick, but I love Bruce more). It's especially frustrating because I'm not loving Daniel's run on Batman either. I don't hate it, but I'm not a huge fan of it either.

See. I can't say I love Morrison. He is really a hit or miss writer for me. As for Dick Grayson. He's tied with Hal Jordan as my favorite character of all-time. I love them both equally for different reasons. I have been a fan of Dick Grayson longer than I have been a fan of Hal Jordan and while I do love Dick as Batman, I kinda miss Nightwing. Although I think this Batman and Robin team is completely awesome and considering that this Batman and Robin team is a lot like this imaginary Batman and Robin story in the 60's. In the story that is narrated by Alfred, Dick took over the role as Batman and the son of Bruce Wayne and Kathy Kane became the new Robin. I like the interaction between Dick and Damian and I want to see it further evolve.

Dick is tied with Daredevil for my third favorite comic character (Bruce being my first favorite, and Tim Drake my second). I really really really really really really really really really really really really REALLY miss him as Nightwing. I just think that's who he is. He isn't Batman. Batman is who Bruce is/was. It wasn't just a costume, it was him. While I have come to accept Dick as Batman more than I did in the beginning, I want him back as Nightwing really badly.

I actually love the team of Dick and Damian. I'm kinda hoping that after Bruce returns, Dick goes back to being Nightwing, and Damian stays as Robin, and that Dick stays his mentor. I think Damian needs someone who went through being a child hero to train him.

Batman25JM wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:Can I ask you a serious question then? As far as I can remember, there are like 8 different Bat-titles at the moment. Why are you reading something you don't like? You obviously don't like Morrison. Why torture yourself with reading something you don't like? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Are you serious with this question? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm actually asking. In the post right above yours I preemptively answered this question:

Batman25JM wrote:
And before anyone asks the question "if you hate Morrison and the book, why do you keep reading it?". I keep reading it because I know it's been leading up to Bruce's return, and I want to know what's going on with that.

Jherek wrote:To quote my other favourite pop culture icon (Doctor Who) -

“People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect… but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it’s more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly…. timey-wimey…. stuff.”

It's entirely possible that Bruce's shennanigans in the past is altering the present as Damian and Dick are experiencing it. Including the psycho -geography of thier surroundings.

I HATE that type of time travel logic. The "changes" in the manor should have always been there, IMO.

Jherek wrote:
Oh and Batman25JM, I don't think you're ever going to 'get' Morrison if you continue to assume that there is anything to 'get'. Don't read this book if you don't like it. The events of 'The Return of Bruce Wayne' will be well enough documented (not to mention retconned away in a few years time) without you having to (as Jaydee says) torture yourself reading a book you don't like.

Bruce is my favorite fictional character, and as much as I dislike what Morrison is doing, as well as his writing, I want to read what is going on with him. I don't want to hear about it second hand.

And there may not be some secret thing that I'm missing that would make me like Morrison, but there is always a chance that I could change my mind about him. I used to HATE the comedian Mitch Hedberg, and then one day something finally clicked, and now he's probably my favorite comedian of all time. A similar thing happened with Star Wars. I hated it as a kid, and now I love it. It's happened with many other things with me as well (the Stargate franchise, the Star Trek franchise, Pokemon, and many more). Just because I don't like Morrison now, doesn't mean I'll always hate him, and since I love Bruce and Dick so much I want to read the book that is basically the flagship of their stories.

Who says that these are changes to the Mansion? The clues came about when the paintings were arranged in an order they never had been before. So the clues have always been there, just never uncovered before, because there never was a reason for them to be uncovered.

It seems like everyone is over thinking this.

As for Oberon Sexton, I don't think he's Bruce. Oberon is going to be another character. I gotta think about it some more, I have a theory but haven't fleshed it out yet.

^I said early on that the changes should have always been there and that Bruce should have found them. I refuse to believe that a man like Bruce didn't search every inch of that Mansion. He'd scan it and make sure there were no surprises. I haven't read No Man's Land yet, but did he check out the mansion after the earthquake? That just seems like a smart thing to do.

As for the pictures being arranged that way, I call crap there as well. I find it VERY hard to believe that the pictures are finally arranged in a way to uncover the clues right as the need to uncover the clues is upon them.

Batman25JM wrote:^I said early on that the changes should have always been there and that Bruce should have found them. I refuse to believe that a man like Bruce didn't search every inch of that Mansion. He'd scan it and make sure there were no surprises. I haven't read No Man's Land yet, but did he check out the mansion after the earthquake? That just seems like a smart thing to do.

As for the pictures being arranged that way, I call crap there as well. I find it VERY hard to believe that the pictures are finally arranged in a way to uncover the clues right as the need to uncover the clues is upon them.

What you refuse to believe and what happened are at odds. Just because a character should do something, doesn't mean that he has done it.

As for crap on the pictures, how many times do you think they would need to be moved? If I were sending an SOS through time, I might just anticipate that after I "die" that Alfred may want to do some re arranging, that there is no reason to move the pictures before that, and Wallah my compatriots get the message that I need to send at the right time.

The Ignored One wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^I said early on that the changes should have always been there and that Bruce should have found them. I refuse to believe that a man like Bruce didn't search every inch of that Mansion. He'd scan it and make sure there were no surprises. I haven't read No Man's Land yet, but did he check out the mansion after the earthquake? That just seems like a smart thing to do.

As for the pictures being arranged that way, I call crap there as well. I find it VERY hard to believe that the pictures are finally arranged in a way to uncover the clues right as the need to uncover the clues is upon them.

What you refuse to believe and what happened are at odds. Just because a character should do something, doesn't mean that he has done it.

As for crap on the pictures, how many times do you think they would need to be moved? If I were sending an SOS through time, I might just anticipate that after I "die" that Alfred may want to do some re arranging, that there is no reason to move the pictures before that, and Wallah my compatriots get the message that I need to send at the right time.

But it is fully in Bruce's character to check things out. If something should be done because that is who the character is, then yes, I will refuse to believe that it wasn't done.

I just think it is way too coincidental that now of all times is when the pictures are moved. If they had been moved 10 years ago, fine, but to have them moved right at the time that the message needs to be conveyed it way too convenient.

Batman25JM wrote:
Dick is tied with Daredevil for my third favorite comic character (Bruce being my first favorite, and Tim Drake my second). I really really really really really really really really really really really really REALLY miss him as Nightwing. I just think that's who he is. He isn't Batman. Batman is who Bruce is/was. It wasn't just a costume, it was him. While I have come to accept Dick as Batman more than I did in the beginning, I want him back as Nightwing really badly.

I actually love the team of Dick and Damian. I'm kinda hoping that after Bruce returns, Dick goes back to being Nightwing, and Damian stays as Robin, and that Dick stays his mentor. I think Damian needs someone who went through being a child hero to train him.

Dick along with Hal Jordan is one of my all-time favorites. I think the character is just awesome and while I also miss him as Nightwing, I am happy to see him as Batman and I am hoping for some great things for the character as 2010 is the 70th anniversary of Dick Grayson so hopefully he'll have a great 2010. Also, I really like the dynamic between Dick and Damian. When Bruce comes back, when he eventually takes the role of Batman again, I would love to see him reteam with Tim while Dick continues to team up with Damian.

Batman25JM wrote:^I said early on that the changes should have always been there and that Bruce should have found them. I refuse to believe that a man like Bruce didn't search every inch of that Mansion. He'd scan it and make sure there were no surprises. I haven't read No Man's Land yet, but did he check out the mansion after the earthquake? That just seems like a smart thing to do.

As for the pictures being arranged that way, I call crap there as well. I find it VERY hard to believe that the pictures are finally arranged in a way to uncover the clues right as the need to uncover the clues is upon them.

But that's what Doctor Who would call "Wibbly Wobbily Timey Wimey.

Batman25JM wrote:

The Ignored One wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^I said early on that the changes should have always been there and that Bruce should have found them. I refuse to believe that a man like Bruce didn't search every inch of that Mansion. He'd scan it and make sure there were no surprises. I haven't read No Man's Land yet, but did he check out the mansion after the earthquake? That just seems like a smart thing to do.

As for the pictures being arranged that way, I call crap there as well. I find it VERY hard to believe that the pictures are finally arranged in a way to uncover the clues right as the need to uncover the clues is upon them.

What you refuse to believe and what happened are at odds. Just because a character should do something, doesn't mean that he has done it.

As for crap on the pictures, how many times do you think they would need to be moved? If I were sending an SOS through time, I might just anticipate that after I "die" that Alfred may want to do some re arranging, that there is no reason to move the pictures before that, and Wallah my compatriots get the message that I need to send at the right time.

But it is fully in Bruce's character to check things out. If something should be done because that is who the character is, then yes, I will refuse to believe that it wasn't done.

I just think it is way too coincidental that now of all times is when the pictures are moved. If they had been moved 10 years ago, fine, but to have them moved right at the time that the message needs to be conveyed it way too convenient.

Another point is to say, Bruce did check it out, and didn't find it. The clues weren't in place when Bruce would have checked out the mansion, so there wouldn't be any impetus for him to look where the cave is.

Bruce has made mistakes before. Batman isn't god.

Finished the last part of the third arc recently and I liked it better then the Red Hood one but what was the reason for the mixed up word balloons in the first part?