Justice League: Cry For Justice

jaydee74 wrote:Didn't care for it at all. Just didn't like it all.

Just because of the death?

Realism is a slippery slope. It's one of those things we like in some cases and one we don't care for in others. This was something that came up when I commented (ranted and railed against) on this series to my gf (she likes comics. How much does that rock?): She mentioned the same thing however, what good is vying for realism when you have a giant golden gorilla? What good is it when you have someone playing Von Batgod Hax-pwn Everyone (Prometheus) better than Batman? In truth, like much of this series, it just seemed like a string of poorly constructed moments made for shock value strung together by a desire for revenge justice, despite the idea of what sort of justice and so forth being something that was lightly touched upon. And coincidently, all of it was tied together. I think my issue with this series was, what was the point? Just to set up the new JLA series? Just to create some status quo? The whole deal seemed unnecessary, let alone all that has transpired in this series. In short, I simply don't understand what he was trying to get at with this story. Even if he wanted to tell a story, it was a flimsy one at that had this a Marvel imprint, I'd be shaking my fist at the skies and screaming "LOOOOOEEEEB". Personally, I found this series to be poor in general and the finish subpar to Robinson's writing talents.

LordD3r3k wrote:

jaydee74 wrote:Didn't care for it at all. Just didn't like it all.

Just because of the death?

It was more than that. This series overall just didn't do it for me story-wise. I will say over and over again that the art was simply amazing and I did enjoy the backup stuff Robinson did. The story was just underwhelming to me. I never read Robinson's Starman although I did like his work on Superman and especially the Krypto issue. I just haven't liked anything since. Personal taste I guess.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote: what good is vying for realism when you have a giant golden gorilla?

Eh, sorry, but I think that's a flawed argument. Obviously none of this is real. Obviously there's no inter-dimensional device that will transport a city. BUT.. if there were, what would be the consequences? That's the point I make by saying there's realism. If a villain leveled the city you lived in, how realistic would it be that your family survived unscathed? Probably not much at all, but that's usually the outcome in comics. That's why I was, well happy isn't the right word, but I liked that not everyone made it out ok.

And on another note, I'm glad to see the device didn't work the way Prometheus thought it would. Again, another bit of comic realism that these crazy high-tech devices probably should go haywire once in awhile.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote: what good is vying for realism when you have a giant golden gorilla?

Eh, sorry, but I think that's a flawed argument. Obviously none of this is real. Obviously there's no inter-dimensional device that will transport a city. BUT.. if there were, what would be the consequences? That's the point I make by saying there's realism. If a villain leveled the city you lived in, how realistic would it be that your family survived unscathed? Probably not much at all, but that's usually the outcome in comics. That's why I was, well happy isn't the right word, but I liked that not everyone made it out ok.

How is it flawed? I can understand going for realism in the sense trying to keep things logical. But at some paoint, they stop converging and come to mean different things. My issue here is that how realistic is it that he has done all that he has done in this series so far? Not very. Yet he should be bothered to be concerned with it at this point?

LordD3r3k wrote:
And on another note, I'm glad to see the device didn't work the way Prometheus thought it would. Again, another bit of comic realism that these crazy high-tech devices probably should go haywire once in awhile.

A good example. Everything works fine and then suddenly this doesn't work. It seems like realism when convient, if this is what he was going for. And if he was going for this, speaking metaphorically, this is the issue I would have with that. Personally, again, I think a great deal of the series was unnecessary and not a good read nd seemed only good for explaining why the JLA has such a new roster.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:A good example. Everything works fine and then suddenly this doesn't work. It seems like realism when convient, if this is what he was going for. And if he was going for this, speaking metaphorically, this is the issue I would have with that. Personally, again, I think a great deal of the series was unnecessary and not a good read nd seemed only good for explaining why the JLA has such a new roster.

Well, as far as convenience goes.. this warping technology wasn't his. He can prep his suit to make sure theres no kinks there, but this wasn't something he created, just merely used. I dont see what's convenient about it. They could have kept the machine as merely a teleporting device and still gotten the same result. But this quirk made it alittle more interesting, for me at least.

And to the point of the mini being unnecessary, well, by what definition? This story wouldn't have fit into the main JLA title a few months back. And even though JLA hasn't been exactly stellar, it had it's own story to tell. So to keep things on a steady timetable, this got released as a mini. I don't see the harm in that either.

To clarify "what was the point".. At first this might have seemed like members of the JLA wanting justice for their fallen members, but the real story was justice for Prometheus. The JLA wronged him by keeping him a vegetable for years. This was his way of evening out the scales. And as themes in the story played out, it reiterates the point that there's a fine line between justice and vengeance.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:A good example. Everything works fine and then suddenly this doesn't work. It seems like realism when convient, if this is what he was going for. And if he was going for this, speaking metaphorically, this is the issue I would have with that. Personally, again, I think a great deal of the series was unnecessary and not a good read nd seemed only good for explaining why the JLA has such a new roster.

Well, as far as convenience goes.. this warping technology wasn't his. He can prep his suit to make sure theres no kinks there, but this wasn't something he created, just merely used. I dont see what's convenient about it. They could have kept the machine as merely a teleporting device and still gotten the same result. But this quirk made it alittle more interesting, for me at least.

And to the point of the mini being unnecessary, well, by what definition? This story wouldn't have fit into the main JLA title a few months back. And even though JLA hasn't been exactly stellar, it had it's own story to tell. So to keep things on a steady timetable, this got released as a mini. I don't see the harm in that either.

The story itself seems unneessary and seems only to serve as a set-up, something that could occur within the Green Arrow books or the JLA books (more appropriately). But I suppose marketing and money plays into this at this point. From a story standpoint, it seems like another arc, and one very closed off, given the lack of the usual major players.

LordD3r3k wrote:To clarify "what was the point".. At first this might have seemed like members of the JLA wanting justice for their fallen members, but the real story was justice for Prometheus. The JLA wronged him by keeping him a vegetable for years. This was his way of evening out the scales. And as themes in the story played out, it reiterates the point that there's a fine line between justice and vengeance.

Again, this seemed more like a tale with elements haphazardly tossed together than anything else. In terms of theme I don't think it did enough to elaborate on this, but at this point, the discussion becomes relative and becomes an argument of scarlet vs. crimson.

What I don't get is when DC wants one of their heroes to go off the deep end, do they have to resort to destroying the entire city? I mean isn't this like the fourth or fifth time they have used this plot device.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:The story itself seems unneessary and seems only to serve as a set-up, something that could occur within the Green Arrow books or the JLA books (more appropriately). But I suppose marketing and money plays into this at this point. From a story standpoint, it seems like another arc, and one very closed off, given the lack of the usual major players.

I'm sure marketing does have a role to play, it is business after all, but again there's the point of those other titles having their own arcs to finish. And of course the big players arent there because of what's going on it their own books. I just dont see the harm in this being released as a mini.

I'm just glad I dropped this book very early on. The cringe-worthy dialogue was enough for me.

Bigtymin504 wrote:I'm just glad I dropped this book very early on. The cringe-worthy dialogue was enough for me.

Agreed. The dialogue was fairly bad. It didn't sound like the characters to me.

Issue #7 was a mediocre end to a mediocre story.

There were two things that bothered me. First, why was Alan Scott wearing a Green Lantern Corp. style GL ring? Was he inducted into the Corps. and no one told me? Second, I kinda find it hard to believe that Prometheus, the arrogant genius that he is, wouldn't wear a helmet that was strong enough to stop an arrow.

Batman25JM wrote:Issue #7 was a mediocre end to a mediocre story.

There were two things that bothered me. First, why was Alan Scott wearing a Green Lantern Corp. style GL ring? Was he inducted into the Corps. and no one told me?

Artist interpretation.

Batman25JM wrote:I kinda find it hard to believe that Prometheus, the arrogant genius that he is, wouldn't wear a helmet that was strong enough to stop an arrow.

This isn't Marvel, not everyone has access to adamantium

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:Issue #7 was a mediocre end to a mediocre story.

There were two things that bothered me. First, why was Alan Scott wearing a Green Lantern Corp. style GL ring? Was he inducted into the Corps. and no one told me?

Artist interpretation.

I'm sorry, but I don't like that explanation. Alan's ring is supposed to be different. I call it a mistake and not an interpretation.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I kinda find it hard to believe that Prometheus, the arrogant genius that he is, wouldn't wear a helmet that was strong enough to stop an arrow.

This isn't Marvel, not everyone has access to adamantium

With ALL the preparation he did, and as smart as he's supposed to be I would think he'd have a harder helmet. Especially since he knew GA would be pissed.

Batman25JM wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't like that explanation. Alan's ring is supposed to be different. I call it a mistake and not an interpretation.

Shocking as it may sound, sometimes artists aren't all that familiar with every character. Maybe whoever did that panel isn't the most avid DC reader. Honestly, this sounds a bit nitpicky. Artists take liberties all the time. Hell, look at Wolverine and his claws. You'd think they were made of puddy with how inconsistent they're drawn

With ALL the preparation he did, and as smart as he's supposed to be I would think he'd have a harder helmet. Especially since he knew GA would be pissed.

But you forget the biggest villain weakness, cockiness. Prometheus hangs out in a castle between dimensions. Security doesn't get much tighter than that. He had no reason to believe he'd be followed.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't like that explanation. Alan's ring is supposed to be different. I call it a mistake and not an interpretation.

Shocking as it may sound, sometimes artists aren't all that familiar with every character. Maybe whoever did that panel isn't the most avid DC reader. Honestly, this sounds a bit nitpicky. Artists take liberties all the time. Hell, look at Wolverine and his claws. You'd think they were made of puddy with how inconsistent they're drawn

Oh, don't get me started on Wolverine's claws.

I'm usually not one to be so nitpicky, but things like this bug the hell out of me. It's something that shouldn't happen. Even if the artist isn't all that familiar, someone should have caught it.

LordD3r3k wrote:

With ALL the preparation he did, and as smart as he's supposed to be I would think he'd have a harder helmet. Especially since he knew GA would be pissed.

But you forget the biggest villain weakness, cockiness. Prometheus hangs out in a castle between dimensions. Security doesn't get much tighter than that. He had no reason to believe he'd be followed.

True, true, Prometheus was one cocky son of a bitch, but as for going back to his hideout I don't think he changed his helmet. So, the helmet he was wearing is the one he went into battle with, and I just think he'd reinforce it with something strong enough to stop an arrow. If it couldn't stop an arrow, I doubt it would have been able to stop a bullet and that seems like a major problem.

Batman25JM wrote:Oh, don't get me started on Wolverine's claws.

I'm usually not one to be so nitpicky, but things like this bug the hell out of me. It's something that shouldn't happen. Even if the artist isn't all that familiar, someone should have caught it.

Maybe because it's been delayed they just rather get it on the shelves? It may also depend on the editor. Some might be more detail oriented than others.

True, true, Prometheus was one cocky son of a bitch, but as for going back to his hideout I don't think he changed his helmet. So, the helmet he was wearing is the one he went into battle with, and I just think he'd reinforce it with something strong enough to stop an arrow. If it couldn't stop an arrow, I doubt it would have been able to stop a bullet and that seems like a major problem.

Valid point. I don't think his armor is made out of anything special though

OK I gsve issue #7 a shot. Should have just left well enough alone. Mediocre at best.

Debaser77 wrote:OK I gsve issue #7 a shot. Should have just left well enough alone. Mediocre at best.

Judging this issue alone, what exactly made it mediocre?

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:
In truth, like much of this series, it just seemed like a string of poorly constructed moments made for shock value strung together by a desire for revenge justice, despite the idea of what sort of justice and so forth being something that was lightly touched upon.

This is my thought also.

Overall I just thought this mini series was poor. Ordinary writing - both the dialogue and the way all the different elements were drawn together seemed very poorly constructed. Started out with good looking art but then when you really look at it the majority of the art tended to be very stiff and undynamic and then just deteriorated as other artists came in to finish the job. There was obviously some big ideas with this series but unfortunately the execution didn't live up to them. It's also unfortunate when Robinson's historical text pieces proved to be the most interesting parts of each issue.

The other thing I would say is that when the destruction of a city and the deaths of 90,000 people occurs over only a few pages there really isn't any emotional resonance for the reader to what's happening. It's meaningless. There's no feeling to it.

This series offered a lot but failed to deliver.

LordD3r3k wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:Issue #7 was a mediocre end to a mediocre story.

There were two things that bothered me. First, why was Alan Scott wearing a Green Lantern Corp. style GL ring? Was he inducted into the Corps. and no one told me?

Artist interpretation.

Nope. I gotta back up my man Batman here on this one. Alan's ring is different enough from the rings of the GL Corps that it should be shown as such on page. I happen to like his ring design better. I think it's a lazy artist who just thinks that since Alan is called Green Lantern he assumes that the ring is the same. That is what the editor is there for. To tell the artist that no. Alan's ring is different than Hal's ring. It's lazy like this entire series was.

well i am happy this is over. the story wasn't good and i am not happy at all with what green arrow did at the end. i thought the kill at the end was stupid and i hope GA gets it from everyone else like wonder woman did a few years back when she killed max lord

shiky800 wrote:well i am happy this is over. the story wasn't good and i am not happy at all with what green arrow did at the end. i thought the kill at the end was stupid and i hope GA gets it from everyone else like wonder woman did a few years back when she killed max lord

The difference is that they may not know he's done it. I'm not sure that they'll find out at least in the shorter term.