Jay Leno Gets Back Conan's Time Slot

^How though? He had 7 months to establish his Tonight Show, and it isn't working. Most shows that aren't doing well don't get half that amount of time before they are canceled.

Batman25JM wrote:^How though? He had 7 months to establish his Tonight Show, and it isn't working. Most shows that aren't doing well don't get half that amount of time before they are canceled.

You seem to forget that this all started because The Jay Leno Show was tanking badly. NBC wasn't moving The Jay Leno Show to 11:35 because The Tonight Show was doing poorly in the ratings...but because they didn't want Leno running to another network.

Conan is INDEED getting screwed. Why move a long-standing franchise to 30 minutes later to keep around a guy whose show was getting murdered and causing affiliates to lose their shit? Conan would have eventually overtaken Dave in the ratings without this current media frenzy, because he's got the youthful demographics on his side. Comedy has changed since the Late Night wars of the early 90's, and Conan is the lead horse.

^I think that Leno got screwed to begin with when he was basically forced to step down so that NBC could keep Conan.

From what I've read the Tonight Show isn't doing well either. Sure, The Jay Leno Show isn't doing well (though it seems like its only doing poorly in certain areas), but the Tonight Show isn't kicking ass either.

Batman25JM wrote:^I think that Leno got screwed to begin with when he was basically forced to step down so that NBC could keep Conan.

From what I've read the Tonight Show isn't doing well either. Sure, The Jay Leno Show isn't doing well (though it seems like its only doing poorly in certain areas), but the Tonight Show isn't kicking ass either.

It's definitely poor management by NBC's part.

The Tonight Show isn't doing great, but that was never the issue. The issue was The Jay Leno Show. It basically killed their primetime lineup and forced affiliates' hands.

I do agree that it's poor management on NBC's part.

I just don't think its fair that everyone is blaming Leno. He was basically forced out of the Tonight Show, then when it came time to leave he realized he really wanted to stay so The Jay Leno Show came about, and now that its not doing well in its time slot they are trying to find a solution. It's not Leno's fault that NBC screwed up so royally, but everyone seems to be blaming him.

I think all these problem would easily be solved by giving Chevy Chase a talk show.

Batman25JM wrote:I do agree that it's poor management on NBC's part.

I just don't think its fair that everyone is blaming Leno. He was basically forced out of the Tonight Show, then when it came time to leave he realized he really wanted to stay so The Jay Leno Show came about, and now that its not doing well in its time slot they are trying to find a solution. It's not Leno's fault that NBC screwed up so royally, but everyone seems to be blaming him.

It's people wanting to take sides. If people scream "Up with Conan, down with Leno", they hope that the network will listen and keep Conan at 11:35.

Leno is a sneaky, ass kissing little bastard who appeals to the lowest common denomenator. I believe that's most peoples problem with him, stemming from the old hiding in closets kind of shit from the first Late Night War. He's lazy and compliant, just the fact that his Tonight Show was so popular works against him in my opinion, because this country is seeing a sharp uprising of stupidity. Humor that challenges no one and is the equivalent of processed cheese food slices is sure to do well. Doesn't mean it's good.

Thundermatts wrote:Leno is a sneaky, ass kissing little bastard who appeals to the lowest common denomenator. I believe that's most peoples problem with him, stemming from the old hiding in closets kind of shit from the first Late Night War. He's lazy and compliant, just the fact that his Tonight Show was so popular works against him in my opinion, because this country is seeing a sharp uprising of stupidity. Humor that challenges no one and is the equivalent of processed cheese food slices is sure to do well. Doesn't mean it's good.

That's pretty harsh. I'm not a Leno fan, but he does have his moments.

Name one.

Thundermatts wrote:Name one.

uhhh... I don't know off the top of my head. I'll watch it tonight and if he makes me laugh I'll let you know.

lol. Okay.

Batman25JM wrote:^I think that Leno got screwed to begin with when he was basically forced to step down so that NBC could keep Conan.

That's not what happened, or at least, that's not my understanding of what happened. If I've confused the fact, someone please correct me.

The way I know it is that back in 2005 or so, Jay Leno announced he was retiring from The Tonight Show. Conan had turned down numerous jobs (and some that payed well beyond what NBC would pay him) because he was essentially being groomed to take Jay's spot when he finally decided to call it quits. With Jay announcing his retirement NBC wisely filled that position with Conan. So far, everything is hunky dory.

Then, for reasons only Jay Leno knows, he decided he wasn't ready to quit and NBC decided to give him a prime time talk show. Jay's show from the very beginning received poor reception from critics and audiences alike and his poor performance impacted everyone who followed him. With Jay's ratings as poor as they were NBC knew they needed to change up their prime time slot, but rather than risk losing Jay to another network decided to bump The Tonight Show half an hour (which bumps every program that follows) so that Jay's show can air at 11:35 EST. This isn't just NBC screwing Conan, but as Conan pointed out, they're messing with a decades-long tradition of The Tonight Show airing at 11:35 EST. This means Jimmy Fallon won't come on until 1:00 EST and poor Carson Daly won't be on until 4 in the morning.

While there are people who are railing against Jay Leno, most of the backlash that I have witnessed has not been at any single person, but rather the incompetent fucks running NBC. I do think some of the venom that is being aimed at Leno is because rather than saying to NBC, "Hey, don't bump these other shows for me," he's just sitting back and letting it happen. I don't think Jay is a bad guy, but he could certainly be more pro-active in looking out for his late show peers.

Joshua wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^I think that Leno got screwed to begin with when he was basically forced to step down so that NBC could keep Conan.

That's not what happened, or at least, that's not my understanding of what happened. If I've confused the fact, someone please correct me.

The way I know it is that back in 2005 or so, Jay Leno announced he was retiring from The Tonight Show. Conan had turned down numerous jobs (and some that payed well beyond what NBC would pay him) because he was essentially being groomed to take Jay's spot when he finally decided to call it quits. With Jay announcing his retirement NBC wisely filled that position with Conan. So far, everything is hunky dory.

Then, for reasons only Jay Leno knows, he decided he wasn't ready to quit and NBC decided to give him a prime time talk show. Jay's show from the very beginning received poor reception from critics and audiences alike and his poor performance impacted everyone who followed him. With Jay's ratings as poor as they were NBC knew they needed to change up their prime time slot, but rather than risk losing Jay to another network decided to bump The Tonight Show half an hour (which bumps every program that follows) so that Jay's show can air at 11:35 EST. This isn't just NBC screwing Conan, but as Conan pointed out, they're messing with a decades-long tradition of The Tonight Show airing at 11:35 EST. This means Jimmy Fallon won't come on until 1:00 EST and poor Carson Daly won't be on until 4 in the morning.

While there are people who are railing against Jay Leno, most of the backlash that I have witnessed has not been at any single person, but rather the incompetent fucks running NBC. I do think some of the venom that is being aimed at Leno is because rather than saying to NBC, "Hey, don't bump these other shows for me," he's just sitting back and letting it happen. I don't think Jay is a bad guy, but he could certainly be more pro-active in looking out for his late show peers.

From everything I heard (from back when it was announced Leno would leave in 2009 and from more recently) Conan was getting restless and tired of hosting Late Night. He wanted to host an earlier show. NBC feared he would go to a competing network, so they came to a deal where he would take over the Tonight Show in 2009 and Leno would step down. So, Leno was basically forced out.

I've seen a ton of backlash against Leno, and I think it is completely undeserved. If you were Leno would you say "don't bump these other shows for me"? If he wants to host a show why would he say that? It isn't his duty to fall on his sword for the other people. Most people wouldn't do that, and I don't see why it would be his duty to do it.

Batman25JM wrote:

Joshua wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:^I think that Leno got screwed to begin with when he was basically forced to step down so that NBC could keep Conan.

That's not what happened, or at least, that's not my understanding of what happened. If I've confused the fact, someone please correct me.

The way I know it is that back in 2005 or so, Jay Leno announced he was retiring from The Tonight Show. Conan had turned down numerous jobs (and some that payed well beyond what NBC would pay him) because he was essentially being groomed to take Jay's spot when he finally decided to call it quits. With Jay announcing his retirement NBC wisely filled that position with Conan. So far, everything is hunky dory.

Then, for reasons only Jay Leno knows, he decided he wasn't ready to quit and NBC decided to give him a prime time talk show. Jay's show from the very beginning received poor reception from critics and audiences alike and his poor performance impacted everyone who followed him. With Jay's ratings as poor as they were NBC knew they needed to change up their prime time slot, but rather than risk losing Jay to another network decided to bump The Tonight Show half an hour (which bumps every program that follows) so that Jay's show can air at 11:35 EST. This isn't just NBC screwing Conan, but as Conan pointed out, they're messing with a decades-long tradition of The Tonight Show airing at 11:35 EST. This means Jimmy Fallon won't come on until 1:00 EST and poor Carson Daly won't be on until 4 in the morning.

While there are people who are railing against Jay Leno, most of the backlash that I have witnessed has not been at any single person, but rather the incompetent fucks running NBC. I do think some of the venom that is being aimed at Leno is because rather than saying to NBC, "Hey, don't bump these other shows for me," he's just sitting back and letting it happen. I don't think Jay is a bad guy, but he could certainly be more pro-active in looking out for his late show peers.

From everything I heard (from back when it was announced Leno would leave in 2009 and from more recently) Conan was getting restless and tired of hosting Late Night. He wanted to host an earlier show. NBC feared he would go to a competing network, so they came to a deal where he would take over the Tonight Show in 2009 and Leno would step down. So, Leno was basically forced out.

I've seen a ton of backlash against Leno, and I think it is completely undeserved. If you were Leno would you say "don't bump these other shows for me"? If he wants to host a show why would he say that? It isn't his duty to fall on his sword for the other people. Most people wouldn't do that, and I don't see why it would be his duty to do it.

It wasnt Conan was getting restless but more he was receiving offers to go to a competing network. NBC wanted to keep Conan and talked to Leno back on 2004. Leno did say he would step down and Conan would get the keys to the car, so to say.
Here is Leno talking about it on his show back in '04.
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6d1caacad1/jay-s-2004-announcement?rel=player

Now who is to blame? Well I think everyone but Conan. Here is why, Conan was receiving offers for more money but did not take them because NBC wrote into his contract he would get The Tonight Show, Leno agreed to step down. When the time came for all of this to happen, Leno said he would look at other offers. NBC feared this (like they did with Conan) and offered Leno the 10 slot. NBC failed to see that a variety show in that hour would fail. Leno didnt keep his word and Conan was caught in the middle....

^I don't see how you can blame Leno. NBC wanted to give Conan the Tonight Show so he wouldn't leave, so Leno agreed. However, Leno had second thoughts (and I can't blame him, he wasn't leaving on his own terms, but because NBC feared Conan going to another network). He wanted to have a show, so he got one. It's not like he was trying to screw anyone over.

Batman25JM wrote:^I don't see how you can blame Leno. NBC wanted to give Conan the Tonight Show so he wouldn't leave, so Leno agreed. However, Leno had second thoughts (and I can't blame him, he wasn't leaving on his own terms, but because NBC feared Conan going to another network). He wanted to have a show, so he got one. It's not like he was trying to screw anyone over.

OK I blame Leno because he agreed 5 years ago. Which means he had 5 years to decide, but he waited till the end. I mean the blame is slightly on Leno, but more so on NBC.

^Maybe it wasn't real to him five years ago. Maybe it took the end coming for him to realize how much he wanted to stay.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Conan-Hulk, Superleno, and Captain NBC!!

Ha! I saw that and laughed my a$$ off when NBC turned into Captain America! I think that channel is are the ones who came up with a Tiger Woods animation also.

^Its pretty simple, Leno went back on his word and now Conan is getting screwed. I understand that people can have a change of heart and all that, but the fact is, he promised to leave the Tonight Show and hand the keys to Conan. He said so himself that it was the right thing to do. And now he went back on that deal and played the passive aggressive role and got the Tonight Show back.

I've never had a problem with Leno, I always enjoyed his show. But this whole fiasco just kinda shed some light on how he is. I don't think its a coincidence that a lot of comedians and entertainers like Letterman, Kimmel, Howard Stern, etc. have negative things to say about Leno and the way he's acted over the years. He could have went out on top and beloved, like he originally said he wanted to, but now he's just overstaying his welcome and really turning a lot of people off. Which is exactly what he said he didn't want to do back in 2004.

Just a very bad situation that was no doubt horribly managed by NBC, but also not gracefully handled by Leno.

I have never been a Leno fan. The funniest bits on his show seem to be what he stole from other hosts. (Jay walking from Stern, Headlines from Letterman,, so on and so forth.) If he didn't want to give up being on TV, he should have told NBC back in 2004 he wasn't anywhere near ready to leave, so do with Conan whatever they want.

I do think more of the blame should be on NBC execs, than on Leno, but he definitely should shoulder some of the blame here. Don't tell people you will be fine with retirement and then go back on what you say.

Conan's show never had the chance that Leno's show had. NBC's programming as a whole has tanked. He never had the ratings support that Leno had in the early days, and experimenting with a show at 10 that pretty much everyone knew was going to fail as a lead in to the Tonight show just shows that NBC could care less about that franchise, and cares more about what they think is a useful commodity in Leno. It's gonna take Coco a few months to be able to get a show up and running with where ever he ends up, and it I think it should be interesting to see 4 late night hosts, basically in the same time slot, go at it. With the negative back lash against Jay right now, I definitely could see Conan battling it out with Letterman for 1 and 2 with Jay nipping at their heals.

The interesting thing about Fox as an option is American Idol. With it probably being repackaged to the American version of the X Factor, that would be a great lead in for Conan. Fox could really legitimize itself as a network if they can work out the time slot thing with it's affiliates. Shows like House, Lie to me, the X-Factor, and 24 in the week leading into a talk show, could be huge ratings.

The Ignored One wrote:I have never been a Leno fan. The funniest bits on his show seem to be what he stole from other hosts. (Jay walking from Stern, Headlines from Letterman,, so on and so forth.) If he didn't want to give up being on TV, he should have told NBC back in 2004 he wasn't anywhere near ready to leave, so do with Conan whatever they want.

I do think more of the blame should be on NBC execs, than on Leno, but he definitely should shoulder some of the blame here. Don't tell people you will be fine with retirement and then go back on what you say.

Conan's show never had the chance that Leno's show had. NBC's programming as a whole has tanked. He never had the ratings support that Leno had in the early days, and experimenting with a show at 10 that pretty much everyone knew was going to fail as a lead in to the Tonight show just shows that NBC could care less about that franchise, and cares more about what they think is a useful commodity in Leno. It's gonna take Coco a few months to be able to get a show up and running with where ever he ends up, and it I think it should be interesting to see 4 late night hosts, basically in the same time slot, go at it. With the negative back lash against Jay right now, I definitely could see Conan battling it out with Letterman for 1 and 2 with Jay nipping at their heals.

The interesting thing about Fox as an option is American Idol. With it probably being repackaged to the American version of the X Factor, that would be a great lead in for Conan. Fox could really legitimize itself as a network if they can work out the time slot thing with it's affiliates. Shows like House, Lie to me, the X-Factor, and 24 in the week leading into a talk show, could be huge ratings.

Agreed, the thing is though the Fox network may have to tweek a few things, since they give local programming the ten pm till I think 10 am to fill for themselves.... But then again things can change very quickly. Lets not forget how Leno basically upset Johnny Carson by saying he (Leno) would replace Carson. Carson wanted Letterman....

Yeah... come to think of it, Jay's funniest segments are based on other peoples stupidity. Jaywalking and HEadlines... What a toolbox.

(._Y_.) wrote:Yeah... come to think of it, Jay's funniest segments are based on other peoples stupidity. Jaywalking and HEadlines... What a toolbox.

And the great thing is he didn't evencome up with the ideas for those segments himself. Jay Leno is the Carlos Mencia of Late night, and nobody really talks about it.

(._Y_.) wrote:Yeah... come to think of it, Jay's funniest segments are based on other peoples stupidity. Jaywalking and HEadlines... What a toolbox.

Heh. Glad you saw the light. He still tells Monica Lewinsky jokes.