Blackest Night

Sandman wrote:so how come no one has mentioned that Larfleeze does not have an oath and his ring power got up to 100,000%!! that seems kinda huge

I think his goes up tp 100,000 b/c the orange light is not divided. Larfleeze has it all

Debaser77 wrote:Larfleeze is one of my favorite new characters. DC needs to get him his own mini series.

Batman25JM wrote:I loved issue #5 so much I reread it. I almost never do that, even with books I love.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

But we saw Bruce's body in the past. It wasn't just his consciousness. He had a body, and could touch things. I don't think that's Bruce's body. Unless when Bruce was hit with Darkseid's Omega Sanction it created a second body that was sent to the past leaving the body that was in the present an empty shell.

I don't think it was really Bruce's body. He didn't act like Bruce. The BLs might not actually be the people they were, but they have the memories and personalities, but "Bruce" didn't. I think Nekron just made that BL look like Batman to trigger an emotional response from everyone.

We saw what appeared to be Bruce's body in the past, but we don't actually know anything about what we saw at the end of Final Crisis. I guess its all kind of up in the air when it comes to Bruce at this point.

I still believe it was his body at the end. They said he's still alive, I don't think that could be the case if that husk that Superman had was his body.

It very well could be. But its just confusing since we just saw his body get reanimated like the rest of the dead. Nekron resurrected him by name, then said "back to rest" as if that was really Bruce's body, either he's lying for some reason or was somehow fooled himself.

I think Nekron lied to get an emotional response from the heroes in order to take them over with the black rings.

Yeah that's possible, but kinda dumb to be honest. lol

I'm convinced it's not Bruce. I forgot to mention this before, and Rath brought it up, but there were quotes around th enam Bruce Wayne. That right there is enough to suspect it wasn't him. And as I said before, he didn't say one word. He was basically a rabid animal, and that is not in line with anything we've seen before. If you think about it, if that was really him why wouldn't Nekron keep him around? What better Black Lantern to have on your side than Batman?

I think it is Bruce Wayne. For it not to be Bruce Wayne, we would have to assume that the body Black Hand dug up was not originally Bruce Wayne or that some switch occurred along the way, since it was made pretty evident that the grave from which Black Hand did get the skull was Bruce Wayne. Then there is the situation of how Alfred reacted at the defiling of Bruce's grave and everyone's reaction to the whole thing. Then there's the fact that no one is particularly sure how the Omega Sanction works. Does it simply send someone into the past? If so, then who's body was Superman holding? I find it hard to believe that his body simply swtched places with someone else or something. It may work along the lines of Schrodinger's Cat but that's a whole other discussion. It could be Batman made manifest, with his shell "Bruce Wayne" left behind. Honestly, either one sounds like something Grant Morrison would do. As for Bruce's reaction, the fact that Nekron raised him himself rather than letting a ring work on autopilot may have meant something, maybe the ring did not have ample time to download information on Bruce, or simply it channeled the worst part of Bruce, his rage. Much like Elongated Man, it may have utilized a more demented version of the character. As for Bruce Wayne being in quotes, I'm reminded of an episode of Batman Beyond (I know a TV reference ), where Bruce notes that he refers to himself as Batman and not Bruce in his mind (certainly hinted). This concept is generally beat over our heads in the comics as well,Batman being the true face and Bruce being the mask. It makes one wonder how the rings identify people--By simple birth names? By what people know them by? By the first name they received? By the name they call themselves? Again more questions to, more than enough to put stock in what appear to be subtleties. Furthermore, keeping Bruce around, considering how odd and unnatural his "death" was, it may be hard to keep him around. This may be the reason why the New Gods have not popped up, since they alone would make for wonderful foot soldiers. Finally, I don't think Nekron puts that much stock in Bruce aside from what he represents. His skills and powers mean little to him. As far as he is concerned, he isjust a regular human who relies on trinkets and toys to handle his foes. I think Nekron would think less of Bruce's foes rather than respect him. In any case, i think it could be either but there is enough info for me to think it was Bruce and too many questions to make me think it wasn't.

On a side note, this issue was wonderful. It was the best one yet. These issues aren't coming out fast enough.

Whatever the Omega Sanction does we know from that final panel in FC that some aspect of Bruce/Batman is stuck in a cave somewhere (we assume the past). We also know (because it's comics) that he will return at some point. So the simple explanation would be that whatever Nekron's Black Rings are latching onto in the other re-animated corpses just isn't there in Bruce's case. The Black Lantern Batman was an empty husk and thus unable to function in the same way as the other Black Lanterns; as was illustrated in the story. His function was to provide an emotional tether and spit rings at formally dead heroes. Nekron can work with dead people and now dead people who have come back from the dead but not dead people who aren't quite dead but haven't yet come back.

comicgeekelly wrote:I'm gonna be honest, Batman coming back or whatever the hell that was that happened took me by suprise. Fantastic issue all around.

One thing that I haven't seen a lot of people comment on is how fucked up the Black Hand bonus material at the end of each book is.

That surprised me as well. It was a cool moment though. I loved how all the revived heroes became Black Lanterns like Superman, Kid Flash, Superboy and Wonder Woman. I thought the Black Lantern costumes were amazing. I wonder how that will effect mini-series like Blackest Night: Flash or Wonder Woman?

I have read the Book of Black and it's amazing. It's completely messed up and I love it.

What do we call this? The Black Lantern League of America?

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I loved issue #5 so much I reread it. I almost never do that, even with books I love.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

We saw what appeared to be Bruce's body in the past, but we don't actually know anything about what we saw at the end of Final Crisis. I guess its all kind of up in the air when it comes to Bruce at this point.

I still believe it was his body at the end. They said he's still alive, I don't think that could be the case if that husk that Superman had was his body.

It very well could be. But its just confusing since we just saw his body get reanimated like the rest of the dead. Nekron resurrected him by name, then said "back to rest" as if that was really Bruce's body, either he's lying for some reason or was somehow fooled himself.

I think Nekron lied to get an emotional response from the heroes in order to take them over with the black rings.

Yeah that's possible, but kinda dumb to be honest. lol

I'm convinced it's not Bruce. I forgot to mention this before, and Rath brought it up, but there were quotes around th enam Bruce Wayne. That right there is enough to suspect it wasn't him. And as I said before, he didn't say one word. He was basically a rabid animal, and that is not in line with anything we've seen before. If you think about it, if that was really him why wouldn't Nekron keep him around? What better Black Lantern to have on your side than Batman?

I think it is Bruce Wayne. For it not to be Bruce Wayne, we would have to assume that the body Black Hand dug up was not originally Bruce Wayne or that some switch occurred along the way, since it was made pretty evident that the grave from which Black Hand did get the skull was Bruce Wayne. Then there is the situation of how Alfred reacted at the defiling of Bruce's grave and everyone's reaction to the whole thing. Then there's the fact that no one is particularly sure how the Omega Sanction works. Does it simply send someone into the past? If so, then who's body was Superman holding? I find it hard to believe that his body simply swtched places with someone else or something. It may work along the lines of Schrodinger's Cat but that's a whole other discussion. It could be Batman made manifest, with his shell "Bruce Wayne" left behind. Honestly, either one sounds like something Grant Morrison would do. As for Bruce's reaction, the fact that Nekron raised him himself rather than letting a ring work on autopilot may have meant something, maybe the ring did not have ample time to download information on Bruce, or simply it channeled the worst part of Bruce, his rage. Much like Elongated Man, it may have utilized a more demented version of the character. As for Bruce Wayne being in quotes, I'm reminded of an episode of Batman Beyond (I know a TV reference ), where Bruce notes that he refers to himself as Batman and not Bruce in his mind (certainly hinted). This concept is generally beat over our heads in the comics as well,Batman being the true face and Bruce being the mask. It makes one wonder how the rings identify people--By simple birth names? By what people know them by? By the first name they received? By the name they call themselves? Again more questions to, more than enough to put stock in what appear to be subtleties. Furthermore, keeping Bruce around, considering how odd and unnatural his "death" was, it may be hard to keep him around. This may be the reason why the New Gods have not popped up, since they alone would make for wonderful foot soldiers. Finally, I don't think Nekron puts that much stock in Bruce aside from what he represents. His skills and powers mean little to him. As far as he is concerned, he isjust a regular human who relies on trinkets and toys to handle his foes. I think Nekron would think less of Bruce's foes rather than respect him. In any case, i think it could be either but there is enough info for me to think it was Bruce and too many questions to make me think it wasn't.

On a side note, this issue was wonderful. It was the best one yet. These issues aren't coming out fast enough.

The grave where "Bruce's" body was dug up was Bruce's grave, but that doesn't mean it was his body. I'm still under the impression that Bruce is completely alive in the past and that the body Superman recovered was either someone else's or some kind of duplicated husk left behind when Bruce was sent into the past. Though, all of this is speculation.

I love the moment of Batman Beyond you're talking about. I just don't think they'd put Bruce in quotes because Bruce is the mask. That seems a little much. I think it was in quotes because it wasn't him. That seems like a simpler explanation.

Just so im clear while reading this book again... That was not Bruce Wayne right?

Batman25JM wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I loved issue #5 so much I reread it. I almost never do that, even with books I love.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

I still believe it was his body at the end. They said he's still alive, I don't think that could be the case if that husk that Superman had was his body.

It very well could be. But its just confusing since we just saw his body get reanimated like the rest of the dead. Nekron resurrected him by name, then said "back to rest" as if that was really Bruce's body, either he's lying for some reason or was somehow fooled himself.

I think Nekron lied to get an emotional response from the heroes in order to take them over with the black rings.

Yeah that's possible, but kinda dumb to be honest. lol

I'm convinced it's not Bruce. I forgot to mention this before, and Rath brought it up, but there were quotes around th enam Bruce Wayne. That right there is enough to suspect it wasn't him. And as I said before, he didn't say one word. He was basically a rabid animal, and that is not in line with anything we've seen before. If you think about it, if that was really him why wouldn't Nekron keep him around? What better Black Lantern to have on your side than Batman?

I think it is Bruce Wayne. For it not to be Bruce Wayne, we would have to assume that the body Black Hand dug up was not originally Bruce Wayne or that some switch occurred along the way, since it was made pretty evident that the grave from which Black Hand did get the skull was Bruce Wayne. Then there is the situation of how Alfred reacted at the defiling of Bruce's grave and everyone's reaction to the whole thing. Then there's the fact that no one is particularly sure how the Omega Sanction works. Does it simply send someone into the past? If so, then who's body was Superman holding? I find it hard to believe that his body simply swtched places with someone else or something. It may work along the lines of Schrodinger's Cat but that's a whole other discussion. It could be Batman made manifest, with his shell "Bruce Wayne" left behind. Honestly, either one sounds like something Grant Morrison would do. As for Bruce's reaction, the fact that Nekron raised him himself rather than letting a ring work on autopilot may have meant something, maybe the ring did not have ample time to download information on Bruce, or simply it channeled the worst part of Bruce, his rage. Much like Elongated Man, it may have utilized a more demented version of the character. As for Bruce Wayne being in quotes, I'm reminded of an episode of Batman Beyond (I know a TV reference ), where Bruce notes that he refers to himself as Batman and not Bruce in his mind (certainly hinted). This concept is generally beat over our heads in the comics as well,Batman being the true face and Bruce being the mask. It makes one wonder how the rings identify people--By simple birth names? By what people know them by? By the first name they received? By the name they call themselves? Again more questions to, more than enough to put stock in what appear to be subtleties. Furthermore, keeping Bruce around, considering how odd and unnatural his "death" was, it may be hard to keep him around. This may be the reason why the New Gods have not popped up, since they alone would make for wonderful foot soldiers. Finally, I don't think Nekron puts that much stock in Bruce aside from what he represents. His skills and powers mean little to him. As far as he is concerned, he isjust a regular human who relies on trinkets and toys to handle his foes. I think Nekron would think less of Bruce's foes rather than respect him. In any case, i think it could be either but there is enough info for me to think it was Bruce and too many questions to make me think it wasn't.

On a side note, this issue was wonderful. It was the best one yet. These issues aren't coming out fast enough.

The grave where "Bruce's" body was dug up was Bruce's grave, but that doesn't mean it was his body. I'm still under the impression that Bruce is completely alive in the past and that the body Superman recovered was either someone else's or some kind of duplicated husk left behind when Bruce was sent into the past. Though, all of this is speculation.

I love the moment of Batman Beyond you're talking about. I just don't think they'd put Bruce in quotes because Bruce is the mask. That seems a little much. I think it was in quotes because it wasn't him. That seems like a simpler explanation.

That is also one of my theories (I still like the Schrodinger's Cat theory :P). Personally, I don't see why Bruce can't be flech and blood in the past, and his body be in the present as a Black Lantern. I have a hard time buying that it wasn't him because that in itself seems lame to me and seems like Grant Morrison himself was taking the easy way out when he "killed" Batman. That doesn't sound like something he would do.

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I loved issue #5 so much I reread it. I almost never do that, even with books I love.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

It very well could be. But its just confusing since we just saw his body get reanimated like the rest of the dead. Nekron resurrected him by name, then said "back to rest" as if that was really Bruce's body, either he's lying for some reason or was somehow fooled himself.

I think Nekron lied to get an emotional response from the heroes in order to take them over with the black rings.

Yeah that's possible, but kinda dumb to be honest. lol

I'm convinced it's not Bruce. I forgot to mention this before, and Rath brought it up, but there were quotes around th enam Bruce Wayne. That right there is enough to suspect it wasn't him. And as I said before, he didn't say one word. He was basically a rabid animal, and that is not in line with anything we've seen before. If you think about it, if that was really him why wouldn't Nekron keep him around? What better Black Lantern to have on your side than Batman?

I think it is Bruce Wayne. For it not to be Bruce Wayne, we would have to assume that the body Black Hand dug up was not originally Bruce Wayne or that some switch occurred along the way, since it was made pretty evident that the grave from which Black Hand did get the skull was Bruce Wayne. Then there is the situation of how Alfred reacted at the defiling of Bruce's grave and everyone's reaction to the whole thing. Then there's the fact that no one is particularly sure how the Omega Sanction works. Does it simply send someone into the past? If so, then who's body was Superman holding? I find it hard to believe that his body simply swtched places with someone else or something. It may work along the lines of Schrodinger's Cat but that's a whole other discussion. It could be Batman made manifest, with his shell "Bruce Wayne" left behind. Honestly, either one sounds like something Grant Morrison would do. As for Bruce's reaction, the fact that Nekron raised him himself rather than letting a ring work on autopilot may have meant something, maybe the ring did not have ample time to download information on Bruce, or simply it channeled the worst part of Bruce, his rage. Much like Elongated Man, it may have utilized a more demented version of the character. As for Bruce Wayne being in quotes, I'm reminded of an episode of Batman Beyond (I know a TV reference ), where Bruce notes that he refers to himself as Batman and not Bruce in his mind (certainly hinted). This concept is generally beat over our heads in the comics as well,Batman being the true face and Bruce being the mask. It makes one wonder how the rings identify people--By simple birth names? By what people know them by? By the first name they received? By the name they call themselves? Again more questions to, more than enough to put stock in what appear to be subtleties. Furthermore, keeping Bruce around, considering how odd and unnatural his "death" was, it may be hard to keep him around. This may be the reason why the New Gods have not popped up, since they alone would make for wonderful foot soldiers. Finally, I don't think Nekron puts that much stock in Bruce aside from what he represents. His skills and powers mean little to him. As far as he is concerned, he isjust a regular human who relies on trinkets and toys to handle his foes. I think Nekron would think less of Bruce's foes rather than respect him. In any case, i think it could be either but there is enough info for me to think it was Bruce and too many questions to make me think it wasn't.

On a side note, this issue was wonderful. It was the best one yet. These issues aren't coming out fast enough.

The grave where "Bruce's" body was dug up was Bruce's grave, but that doesn't mean it was his body. I'm still under the impression that Bruce is completely alive in the past and that the body Superman recovered was either someone else's or some kind of duplicated husk left behind when Bruce was sent into the past. Though, all of this is speculation.

I love the moment of Batman Beyond you're talking about. I just don't think they'd put Bruce in quotes because Bruce is the mask. That seems a little much. I think it was in quotes because it wasn't him. That seems like a simpler explanation.

That is also one of my theories (I still like the Schrodinger's Cat theory :P). Personally, I don't see why Bruce can't be flech and blood in the past, and his body be in the present as a Black Lantern. I have a hard time buying that it wasn't him because that in itself seems lame to me and seems like Grant Morrison himself was taking the easy way out when he "killed" Batman. That doesn't sound like something he would do.

All great analysis Wade. If its not Bruce's real skull, I guess it just seems odd to me that Black Hand and Nekron would put so much importance into it if they knew its a fake just to play mind games. I mean, Nekron apparently has complete control over death and resurrection (he said he's the one that allowed all the heroes to come back to life), so the idea that he needs to fake out a Batman resurrection in order to reclaim the formerly dead heroes just seems unnecessary to me. And if it is a fake and Nekron was fooled, then that's just dumb. If it does indeed turn out that the Bruce skull was a fake the whole time, I guess the better of the two explanations would be that Nekron needed an emotional response by the heroes in order to turn them, so he faked a Batman resurrection. Still seems like a petty thing to do for an all-powerful entity of death but meh.

As far as the name in quotes thing goes, I must have missed it so I'll have to check back later. But usually whenever I see someone's name in quotes like that, it tends to just be as a form of condescension or ridicule. So I dunno.

That's not Bruce's body...it's Steve Rogers' .

There is something more to the skull that hasn't been told yet. Why "Batman's" skull? If it's not Batman's skull (and I don't think it is) who's is it?

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I loved issue #5 so much I reread it. I almost never do that, even with books I love.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Bigtymin504 wrote:

It very well could be. But its just confusing since we just saw his body get reanimated like the rest of the dead. Nekron resurrected him by name, then said "back to rest" as if that was really Bruce's body, either he's lying for some reason or was somehow fooled himself.

I think Nekron lied to get an emotional response from the heroes in order to take them over with the black rings.

Yeah that's possible, but kinda dumb to be honest. lol

I'm convinced it's not Bruce. I forgot to mention this before, and Rath brought it up, but there were quotes around th enam Bruce Wayne. That right there is enough to suspect it wasn't him. And as I said before, he didn't say one word. He was basically a rabid animal, and that is not in line with anything we've seen before. If you think about it, if that was really him why wouldn't Nekron keep him around? What better Black Lantern to have on your side than Batman?

I think it is Bruce Wayne. For it not to be Bruce Wayne, we would have to assume that the body Black Hand dug up was not originally Bruce Wayne or that some switch occurred along the way, since it was made pretty evident that the grave from which Black Hand did get the skull was Bruce Wayne. Then there is the situation of how Alfred reacted at the defiling of Bruce's grave and everyone's reaction to the whole thing. Then there's the fact that no one is particularly sure how the Omega Sanction works. Does it simply send someone into the past? If so, then who's body was Superman holding? I find it hard to believe that his body simply swtched places with someone else or something. It may work along the lines of Schrodinger's Cat but that's a whole other discussion. It could be Batman made manifest, with his shell "Bruce Wayne" left behind. Honestly, either one sounds like something Grant Morrison would do. As for Bruce's reaction, the fact that Nekron raised him himself rather than letting a ring work on autopilot may have meant something, maybe the ring did not have ample time to download information on Bruce, or simply it channeled the worst part of Bruce, his rage. Much like Elongated Man, it may have utilized a more demented version of the character. As for Bruce Wayne being in quotes, I'm reminded of an episode of Batman Beyond (I know a TV reference ), where Bruce notes that he refers to himself as Batman and not Bruce in his mind (certainly hinted). This concept is generally beat over our heads in the comics as well,Batman being the true face and Bruce being the mask. It makes one wonder how the rings identify people--By simple birth names? By what people know them by? By the first name they received? By the name they call themselves? Again more questions to, more than enough to put stock in what appear to be subtleties. Furthermore, keeping Bruce around, considering how odd and unnatural his "death" was, it may be hard to keep him around. This may be the reason why the New Gods have not popped up, since they alone would make for wonderful foot soldiers. Finally, I don't think Nekron puts that much stock in Bruce aside from what he represents. His skills and powers mean little to him. As far as he is concerned, he isjust a regular human who relies on trinkets and toys to handle his foes. I think Nekron would think less of Bruce's foes rather than respect him. In any case, i think it could be either but there is enough info for me to think it was Bruce and too many questions to make me think it wasn't.

On a side note, this issue was wonderful. It was the best one yet. These issues aren't coming out fast enough.

The grave where "Bruce's" body was dug up was Bruce's grave, but that doesn't mean it was his body. I'm still under the impression that Bruce is completely alive in the past and that the body Superman recovered was either someone else's or some kind of duplicated husk left behind when Bruce was sent into the past. Though, all of this is speculation.

I love the moment of Batman Beyond you're talking about. I just don't think they'd put Bruce in quotes because Bruce is the mask. That seems a little much. I think it was in quotes because it wasn't him. That seems like a simpler explanation.

That is also one of my theories (I still like the Schrodinger's Cat theory :P). Personally, I don't see why Bruce can't be flech and blood in the past, and his body be in the present as a Black Lantern. I have a hard time buying that it wasn't him because that in itself seems lame to me and seems like Grant Morrison himself was taking the easy way out when he "killed" Batman. That doesn't sound like something he would do.

Whatever the explanation is, I just hope that Bruce if flesh and blood in the past. I don't want him to be some kind of spirit. I hate that kind of stuff when dealing with Batman. I guess I also hope that isn't Bruce's skull because I don't want him to be a Black Lantern (even if only for a moment). I like Batman to stay as realistic as possible even in an unrealistic world.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

Dr. Wade Fucking McNasty wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:I loved issue #5 so much I reread it. I almost never do that, even with books I love.

Bigtymin504 wrote:

Batman25JM wrote:

I think Nekron lied to get an emotional response from the heroes in order to take them over with the black rings.

Yeah that's possible, but kinda dumb to be honest. lol

I'm convinced it's not Bruce. I forgot to mention this before, and Rath brought it up, but there were quotes around th enam Bruce Wayne. That right there is enough to suspect it wasn't him. And as I said before, he didn't say one word. He was basically a rabid animal, and that is not in line with anything we've seen before. If you think about it, if that was really him why wouldn't Nekron keep him around? What better Black Lantern to have on your side than Batman?

I think it is Bruce Wayne. For it not to be Bruce Wayne, we would have to assume that the body Black Hand dug up was not originally Bruce Wayne or that some switch occurred along the way, since it was made pretty evident that the grave from which Black Hand did get the skull was Bruce Wayne. Then there is the situation of how Alfred reacted at the defiling of Bruce's grave and everyone's reaction to the whole thing. Then there's the fact that no one is particularly sure how the Omega Sanction works. Does it simply send someone into the past? If so, then who's body was Superman holding? I find it hard to believe that his body simply swtched places with someone else or something. It may work along the lines of Schrodinger's Cat but that's a whole other discussion. It could be Batman made manifest, with his shell "Bruce Wayne" left behind. Honestly, either one sounds like something Grant Morrison would do. As for Bruce's reaction, the fact that Nekron raised him himself rather than letting a ring work on autopilot may have meant something, maybe the ring did not have ample time to download information on Bruce, or simply it channeled the worst part of Bruce, his rage. Much like Elongated Man, it may have utilized a more demented version of the character. As for Bruce Wayne being in quotes, I'm reminded of an episode of Batman Beyond (I know a TV reference ), where Bruce notes that he refers to himself as Batman and not Bruce in his mind (certainly hinted). This concept is generally beat over our heads in the comics as well,Batman being the true face and Bruce being the mask. It makes one wonder how the rings identify people--By simple birth names? By what people know them by? By the first name they received? By the name they call themselves? Again more questions to, more than enough to put stock in what appear to be subtleties. Furthermore, keeping Bruce around, considering how odd and unnatural his "death" was, it may be hard to keep him around. This may be the reason why the New Gods have not popped up, since they alone would make for wonderful foot soldiers. Finally, I don't think Nekron puts that much stock in Bruce aside from what he represents. His skills and powers mean little to him. As far as he is concerned, he isjust a regular human who relies on trinkets and toys to handle his foes. I think Nekron would think less of Bruce's foes rather than respect him. In any case, i think it could be either but there is enough info for me to think it was Bruce and too many questions to make me think it wasn't.

On a side note, this issue was wonderful. It was the best one yet. These issues aren't coming out fast enough.

The grave where "Bruce's" body was dug up was Bruce's grave, but that doesn't mean it was his body. I'm still under the impression that Bruce is completely alive in the past and that the body Superman recovered was either someone else's or some kind of duplicated husk left behind when Bruce was sent into the past. Though, all of this is speculation.

I love the moment of Batman Beyond you're talking about. I just don't think they'd put Bruce in quotes because Bruce is the mask. That seems a little much. I think it was in quotes because it wasn't him. That seems like a simpler explanation.

That is also one of my theories (I still like the Schrodinger's Cat theory :P). Personally, I don't see why Bruce can't be flech and blood in the past, and his body be in the present as a Black Lantern. I have a hard time buying that it wasn't him because that in itself seems lame to me and seems like Grant Morrison himself was taking the easy way out when he "killed" Batman. That doesn't sound like something he would do.

All great analysis Wade. If its not Bruce's real skull, I guess it just seems odd to me that Black Hand and Nekron would put so much importance into it if they knew its a fake just to play mind games. I mean, Nekron apparently has complete control over death and resurrection (he said he's the one that allowed all the heroes to come back to life), so the idea that he needs to fake out a Batman resurrection in order to reclaim the formerly dead heroes just seems unnecessary to me. And if it is a fake and Nekron was fooled, then that's just dumb. If it does indeed turn out that the Bruce skull was a fake the whole time, I guess the better of the two explanations would be that Nekron needed an emotional response by the heroes in order to turn them, so he faked a Batman resurrection. Still seems like a petty thing to do for an all-powerful entity of death but meh.

As far as the name in quotes thing goes, I must have missed it so I'll have to check back later. But usually whenever I see someone's name in quotes like that, it tends to just be as a form of condescension or ridicule. So I dunno.

I still say the emotional response is the most logical conclusion. In issue #5 the resurrected heroes were either near the skull (which they believe is Bruce's even if it isn't) or saw the BL Batman when their emotional tether was registered.

If it isn't Bruce's skull I think the importance lies in either the emotional response, or with whatever the explanation is behind Bruce's "death". The fact that the skull may have been hit with the Omega Sanction (even if it isn't Bruce's skull it still could be tied to the sanction since we don't know what it does) could hold the significance.

I thought everyone was aware that Dan Didio straight up said that wasn't Bruce's body that Supes had at the end of Final Crisis.

The fan knows – or the fans might guess – that was not Batman’s body that was recovered as a skeleton in Final Crisis #6, but nobody else knows that. Part of the year we have coming ahead of us is the exploration of what that means to the DC Universe – what that body represents, and more importantly, what actually happened to Bruce Wayne, and the mystery surrounding him.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/050915-DiDio.html

The only other person in that bunker was Dan Turpin as far as we know, so up till now I've assumed it was him, but now that I'm thinking back on Final Crisis Orion said "He's in all of us" and Turpin/Darkseid said pretty much the same thing as he went down which has me doubting that it's him either, man Johns is killing me with all of the analysis I'm doing on these books.

Fresh03 wrote:I thought everyone was aware that Dan Didio straight up said that wasn't Bruce's body that Supes had at the end of Final Crisis.

The fan knows – or the fans might guess – that was not Batman’s body that was recovered as a skeleton in Final Crisis #6, but nobody else knows that. Part of the year we have coming ahead of us is the exploration of what that means to the DC Universe – what that body represents, and more importantly, what actually happened to Bruce Wayne, and the mystery surrounding him.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/050915-DiDio.html

The only other person in that bunker was Dan Turpin as far as we know, so up till now I've assumed it was him, but now that I'm thinking back on Final Crisis Orion said "He's in all of us" and Turpin/Darkseid said pretty much the same thing as he went down which has me doubting that it's him either, man Johns is killing me with all of the analysis I'm doing on these books.

I thought DiDio had said that it wasn't Bruce's body, but I couldn't remember for sure and I was too lazy to look for the interview.

Fresh03 wrote:I thought everyone was aware that Dan Didio straight up said that wasn't Bruce's body that Supes had at the end of Final Crisis.

The fan knows – or the fans might guess – that was not Batman’s body that was recovered as a skeleton in Final Crisis #6, but nobody else knows that. Part of the year we have coming ahead of us is the exploration of what that means to the DC Universe – what that body represents, and more importantly, what actually happened to Bruce Wayne, and the mystery surrounding him.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/050915-DiDio.html

The only other person in that bunker was Dan Turpin as far as we know, so up till now I've assumed it was him, but now that I'm thinking back on Final Crisis Orion said "He's in all of us" and Turpin/Darkseid said pretty much the same thing as he went down which has me doubting that it's him either, man Johns is killing me with all of the analysis I'm doing on these books.

Ah yes, well if that still holds up, then it seems like Nekron is either one dumb bastard or one smart tricky bastard...most likely the latter. I guess when it comes to cosmic-level death entities, one cannot underestimate the sneakiness...

Fresh03 wrote:I thought everyone was aware that Dan Didio straight up said that wasn't Bruce's body that Supes had at the end of Final Crisis.

The fan knows – or the fans might guess – that was not Batman’s body that was recovered as a skeleton in Final Crisis #6, but nobody else knows that. Part of the year we have coming ahead of us is the exploration of what that means to the DC Universe – what that body represents, and more importantly, what actually happened to Bruce Wayne, and the mystery surrounding him.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/050915-DiDio.html

The only other person in that bunker was Dan Turpin as far as we know, so up till now I've assumed it was him, but now that I'm thinking back on Final Crisis Orion said "He's in all of us" and Turpin/Darkseid said pretty much the same thing as he went down which has me doubting that it's him either, man Johns is killing me with all of the analysis I'm doing on these books.

It's hard to put stock in what the editors say, what with Quesada and OMD, and Didio himself and Amazons Attack as opposed to what some of the writers intended. In any case, it comes across as silly if it's not Batman:

Final Crisis:
Batman: I's got gun that kill you!
Darkseid: I's omega sanction you!
Batman: I shoots you! heh!
Darkseid: I send you into the past and dress someone else up as you but they are dead and a smoldering corpse!
Batman: What? Why?
Darkseid: Because I'm eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllll!!!!!! Arrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!



If that still holds up then it would seem lame. I wonder if he truly knows or if this is an interpretation of Morrison's work, like Whedon not realizing that Ernst was Cassandra Nova.

Blackest Night #5

Since you guys are all having a great discussion, this review is over.

4.5/5 Black Rings - The most exciting book on the market

It's hard to put stock in what the editors say, what with Quesada and OMD, and Didio himself and Amazons Attack as opposed to what some of the writers intended. In any case, it comes across as silly if it's not Batman:

Final Crisis:
Batman: I's got gun that kill you!
Darkseid: I's omega sanction you!
Batman: I shoots you! heh!
Darkseid: I send you into the past and dress someone else up as you but they are dead and a smoldering corpse!
Batman: What? Why?
Darkseid: Because I'm eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllll!!!!!! Arrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!



If that still holds up then it would seem lame. I wonder if he truly knows or if this is an interpretation of Morrison's work, like Whedon not realizing that Ernst was Cassandra Nova.

Personally I think Geoff being the geek he his has talked to Morrison and knows full well who's corpse that was at the end, Didio said that the ramifications of who's corpse that was would be explored, so I guess we're seeing Geoff do his best Christopher Columbus impersonation this last issue.

As for who it is... Who knows, I've got theories, Anthro being the "First Boy" and being used in Final Crisis' begining and end with no real explanation, Infinty Man being the physical manifestation of the Source since we got an event dealing with the Anti-Life equation earlier this year it makes some sense that we'd see what the opposite side of that coin would be, etc...

Honestly Johns has be completely perplexed as to who that could be, I don't feel let down that it isn't Batman, one could assume that Nekron is using a trick to tie all of those heroes to him as the Guardians have done with their various Lanterns through out the history of the DCU apparently, and I'm actually more excited to see who it is since I'm begining to think that exposing it as not Bruce will break the hold of the BL rings and their "emotional tether" they have on the various Heroes.

Who knows if any of that will turn out to be true? Just a few random theories of mine.

For all we know its Kingdom Come Batman or some alternate Dimensional Bruce. I mean Earth-2 Supes is a BL what about another dead BW?

Fresh03 wrote:

It's hard to put stock in what the editors say, what with Quesada and OMD, and Didio himself and Amazons Attack as opposed to what some of the writers intended. In any case, it comes across as silly if it's not Batman:

Final Crisis:
Batman: I's got gun that kill you!
Darkseid: I's omega sanction you!
Batman: I shoots you! heh!
Darkseid: I send you into the past and dress someone else up as you but they are dead and a smoldering corpse!
Batman: What? Why?
Darkseid: Because I'm eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllll!!!!!! Arrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!



If that still holds up then it would seem lame. I wonder if he truly knows or if this is an interpretation of Morrison's work, like Whedon not realizing that Ernst was Cassandra Nova.

Personally I think Geoff being the geek he his has talked to Morrison and knows full well who's corpse that was at the end, Didio said that the ramifications of who's corpse that was would be explored, so I guess we're seeing Geoff do his best Christopher Columbus impersonation this last issue.

As for who it is... Who knows, I've got theories, Anthro being the "First Boy" and being used in Final Crisis' begining and end with no real explanation, Infinty Man being the physical manifestation of the Source since we got an event dealing with the Anti-Life equation earlier this year it makes some sense that we'd see what the opposite side of that coin would be, etc...

Honestly Johns has be completely perplexed as to who that could be, I don't feel let down that it isn't Batman, one could assume that Nekron is using a trick to tie all of those heroes to him as the Guardians have done with their various Lanterns through out the history of the DCU apparently, and I'm actually more excited to see who it is since I'm begining to think that exposing it as not Bruce will break the hold of the BL rings and their "emotional tether" they have on the various Heroes.

Who knows if any of that will turn out to be true? Just a few random theories of mine.

Part of the reason why I said originally that there is no definitive answer until Morrison explains himself. In any case, I think it's assuming too much that Johns knows in depth what Morrison intended. Much like how Whedon misunderstood Morrison on X-men, much like Slott misunderstood JMS on Spider-man, these things happen. And often times, most people never truly understand what Morrison intends until he explains himself anyways.

Esbat wrote:For all we know its Kingdom Come Batman or some alternate Dimensional Bruce. I mean Earth-2 Supes is a BL what about another dead BW?

Good theory

For all we know its Kingdom Come Batman or some alternate Dimensional Bruce. I mean Earth-2 Supes is a BL what about another dead BW?

Have any of the alternate Versions of Batman died on Earth 1? That was the explanation for Earth 2 Supes showing up, although I guess if Alexander Luthor can jump through dimensions so can other BL's.

I still think it's not a Bruce at all and that I've missed something along the line in Final Crisis that Morrison put in and Johns is working with. Honestly I have a hard time believing that with all of the nods to Final Crisis Geoff has thrown into the Blackest Night books that he didn't sit down and talk over at least the story concepts he had in mind for Blackest Night and how it would fit in with what Grant was laying down in Final Crisis.

Fresh03 wrote:

For all we know its Kingdom Come Batman or some alternate Dimensional Bruce. I mean Earth-2 Supes is a BL what about another dead BW?

Have any of the alternate Versions of Batman died on Earth 1? That was the explanation for Earth 2 Supes showing up, although I guess if Alexander Luthor can jump through dimensions so can other BL's.

I still think it's not a Bruce at all and that I've missed something along the line in Final Crisis that Morrison put in and Johns is working with. Honestly I have a hard time believing that with all of the nods to Final Crisis Geoff has thrown into the Blackest Night books that he didn't sit down and talk over at least the story concepts he had in mind for Blackest Night and how it would fit in with what Grant was laying down in Final Crisis.

And yet it happens all the time. It's nothing new in comics, among other media.

And yet it happens all the time. It's nothing new in comics, among other media.

I know, like I said though, I just can't see Geoff completely disregarding Grant's work, although he did retcon the Aquaman panel from FC#7, although I heard Grant had intended that to be an alternate Earth Aquaman so as not to interfere with Blackest Night and the retcon was thrown in so as not to cause confusion.

Who knows for sure at this point where all of this is going, I've always assumed that Bruce's return was Grant's story to tell, but you could be right and I'm completely out in left field and have let my imagination run away with me, lol.